I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

reminisce about bbc micro & electron games like chuckie egg, repton, elite & exile

Related forum: adventures


User avatar
Dave_E
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Middlesbrough
Contact:

I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby Dave_E » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:13 am

...is there anyone new to the forum, good at cracking games onto disc and willing to try and get the ELECTRON versions:

Summer Olympiad (by Tynesoft) and
Superman: The Man Of Steel (by Tynesoft)

onto a 5.25" DFS disc version?

These games seem to have defeated everyone but I refuse to believe that they *can't* be done. For one reason I'm pretty sure Tynesoft must have created these on disc in the first place and then "done something" to them when they mastered the tapes or the Electron. We have disc versions of all their other compendium releases.

User avatar
leenew
Posts: 3402
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:27 pm
Location: Doncaster, Yorkshire

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby leenew » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:54 am

I really hope someone takes up the challenge.
Ooh! I see RTW is online 8) :lol:

Lee.

User avatar
leenew
Posts: 3402
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:27 pm
Location: Doncaster, Yorkshire

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby leenew » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:06 am

Actually Dave, could you clarify your request!
On everygamegoing.com the cassette covers of both Superman and Summer Olympiad says "BBC/Electron".
Well, on bbcmicro.co.uk we have this: http://www.bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=1473 and this: http://www.bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=1346
Both are flagged as tape versions...

Cheers,

Lee.

User avatar
Dave_E
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Middlesbrough
Contact:

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby Dave_E » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:09 am

The Electron versions are on one side of the tapes, the BBC versions are on the other.

User avatar
Rich Talbot-Watkins
Posts: 1118
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:20 pm
Location: Palma, Mallorca

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby Rich Talbot-Watkins » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:16 pm

billcarr's more your man for tape to disk cracking I'd say. But what in particular is so tricky about transferring the Electron versions to disk? They can't use Kevin Edwards style "evilness" as the Electron has no VIA timers.

User avatar
davidb
Posts: 1901
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:11 pm
Contact:

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby davidb » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:23 pm

Which site is hosting these games? Every Game Going doesn't seem to have a download for Superman, at least.

User avatar
simonm
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:40 pm
Contact:

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby simonm » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:37 pm

I suspect everything I once knew about cracking 8-bit games has long been brain archived. And I cracked a fair few back in the day.

User avatar
CMcDougall
Posts: 5622
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Shadow in a Valley of Scotland

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby CMcDougall » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:21 pm

davidb wrote:Which site is hosting these games? .

I done the .CSW & uefHQ of the tapes (elk & beeb) given to BillC, then to me, they are in the Archive section.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
davidb
Posts: 1901
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:11 pm
Contact:

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby davidb » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:29 pm

CMcDougall wrote:
davidb wrote:Which site is hosting these games? .

I done the .CSW & uefHQ of the tapes (elk & beeb) given to BillC, then to me, they are in the Archive section.

Aha, it's here. Thanks!

User avatar
leenew
Posts: 3402
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:27 pm
Location: Doncaster, Yorkshire

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby leenew » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:31 pm

If anyone tackles this, a little write-up would be good, even if it is unsuccessful.

Lee.

User avatar
richardtoohey
Posts: 3378
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:13 am
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby richardtoohey » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:16 pm

I'd have to remind myself where I got to, but my vague memory of this was that it wasn't so much the protection as the fact that there were lots and lots of little files trampling all over what would be DFS memory space.

So not so much a cracking challenge as a fiddly trying to glue a whole bunch of files into one and shuffle in memory challenge.

I think (from a fading memory!)

EDIT: On second thoughts I'm most likely to be talking rubbish ... there's definitely a lot of files ... will :-# now until I've had a look.

User avatar
richardtoohey
Posts: 3378
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:13 am
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby richardtoohey » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:05 am

Had a quick look.

LOADER is first, BASIC program that does *RUN BONZO
BONZO
Then a &15 block file where the displayed file name changes each block - something like block 0 "Please" block 1 "wait" block 2 "loading" etc.
SUPER1
START
SUPDATA
GAME1.L
GAME1.1
GAME1.2
GAME1.3
GAME1.4
GAME1.5
GAME1.6

If you *. the tape, there are GAME2.L, GAME2.1 ... etc. then GAME3.L, GAME3.1, ... GAME4.L and 5 and 6 and 7 - guess these are the levels in the game, that get loaded as you progress?

User avatar
richardtoohey
Posts: 3378
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:13 am
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby richardtoohey » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:12 am

The changing file name is ...

Please
Wait
********
Superman
M O S
Is
Now
Loading
********
(c) 1989
Tynesoft
Computer
Software
L.t.d.
********
Code
By
Kevin
Blake
Of
Artcrew
Prods'

But looks like you can ignore all that. It's just the big blue Tynesoft animated logo.

If you do *TAPE then */SUPER1 ... the game seems to work (from my experimenting so far in elkulator.) The high score table is cleared, so it asks you to enter your name, but the game does then seem to load & work.

So I'll see about transferring

SUPER1
START
SUPDATA
GAME1.L
GAME1.1
GAME1.2
GAME1.3
GAME1.4
GAME1.5
GAME1.6

onto a disc image and see how that goes ...

User avatar
billcarr2005
Posts: 1102
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:01 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby billcarr2005 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:04 pm

Or just download an SSD with the files on from here
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6195#p58916
which also contains the saved off BONZO :)

Shifting filenames are also detailed here
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6195#p58978
almost 4 years ago! :roll:

User avatar
richardtoohey
Posts: 3378
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:13 am
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby richardtoohey » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:33 pm

:oops: I knew it all seemed familiar and that I had looked at it before but never finished it :oops:

As Pernod said in the other thread (and I've reached the same point now ... again <cough>):

There really is nothing special about Superman. It just needs someone with the patience to move code in memory to ensure we still have disk access to load the next part. Protection is negligible, it's the multi-load that makes it awkward.

#-o ](*,)

User avatar
Dave_E
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Middlesbrough
Contact:

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby Dave_E » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:17 pm

Hmmm, everyone gave up again? :-(

duikkie
Posts: 2711
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby duikkie » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:26 am

i am not good in english , but what is the question ?

is something not running ? or is it running but to much files ?

first i have to finish pipeline for beeb :)

Phantasm
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:56 pm

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby Phantasm » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:09 pm

I saw this post a while back and decided it looked like an interesting project to take a crack at
I spent quite some time looking at this in my spare time. I've never attempted anything like this for the Electron but i have quite a bit of experience in reverse engineering of 68000 code. I owned an Electron back in the 80s and I also wrote an Acorn Electron emulator in javascript a few years ago so I figured I had some of the relevant skills to attempt this.

I managed to get the tape files copied across to disc pretty easily, only the one file with the changing names was a small challenge but pretty easily extracted. Getting the game running from disk proved a much larger job due to the multi-load nature of the game. I mapped out the memory used by all of the parts and tried to figure out areas I could use. The game does use pretty much all of the available memory and it was quite a big job moving stuff around to get it working.

I made extensive use of the debugginer in Elkulator and even ended up forking the code to add additional debugger commands to make my life easier. (https://github.com/dmcoles/elkulator)

In the end I had to make extensive use of the screen memory at load time which means that there are a couple of small issues when running this game

1) The score is not displayed at the start of each level until your score changes
2) The icons are not highlighted correctly but i'm not sure what the relevance of the highlighting of those icons is (if any)

apart from that the game is fully playable from disc and has been tested in Elkulator and Electrem using Acorn ADFS, Pres ADFS and Pres E00 ADFS

See attached for the ADFS disc image

If anyone has any questions on this I will do my best to answer them for you

superman_final.zip
Electron ADFS version of tynesofts Superman - Man of Steel
(122.12 KiB) Downloaded 15 times

User avatar
Dave_E
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Middlesbrough
Contact:

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby Dave_E » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:18 am

Awesomeness!

Phantasm
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:56 pm

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby Phantasm » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:45 pm

Dave_E wrote:Awesomeness!

Only just noticed that you wanted this on a DFS disc version. Hope this ADFS version is good enough

User avatar
Dave_E
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Middlesbrough
Contact:

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby Dave_E » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:52 pm

It's good enough for me, although actually most people do prefer DFS versions as the system keeps PAGE at &E00. Actually, with all that extra memory to play with, you might be able to get the DFS version to work without the score quirks... Or someone else might be able to have a go... :-)

Phantasm
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:56 pm

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby Phantasm » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 pm

Dave_E wrote:It's good enough for me, although actually most people do prefer DFS versions as the system keeps PAGE at &E00. Actually, with all that extra memory to play with, you might be able to get the DFS version to work without the score quirks... Or someone else might be able to have a go... :-)

the 31 files per disc limit is a problem for DFS in this case.

User avatar
richardtoohey
Posts: 3378
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:13 am
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby richardtoohey » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:15 pm

=D> Good effort.

I looked a few times but just couldn't build up the enthusiasm for trying to shoehorn everything into memory and move it around as required.

And then having to make sure it worked when DFS/ADFS kicked in to load the next level ... :-&

Maybe if it was a super game I would have had more of an inclination ...

Anyway, =D> :D

User avatar
Dave_E
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Middlesbrough
Contact:

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby Dave_E » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:32 pm

Summer Olympiad is now the only Acorn Electron game outstanding on disc...!

User avatar
richardtoohey
Posts: 3378
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:13 am
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand

Re: I know I've asked this before a thousands times BUT...

Postby richardtoohey » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:37 pm

:- :- :- :wink:


Return to “software: classic games”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests