Commodore 64

for all subjects/topics not covered by the other forum categories
User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Commodore 64

Postby Lardo Boffin » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:11 am

I'm thinking of getting a C64 for my wife (mostly... 8) ) so she can play Aztec Challenge again. Anything I need to look out for when buying one? Capacitors that need changing / better video output etc.?

Many thanks!

Lardo
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
paradroid90
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:55 pm
Location: Chatham Kent UK

Re: Commodore 64

Postby paradroid90 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:17 am

Hi

For better Video output I would suggest a Lumafix which sits under the VIC II chip which increases the sharpness of the picture quality alot.

The other tip is to get a S Video Cable if your monitor can handle S Video signal.

Most common issue in my experience has been ram failure or logic chip failure. Peeps in the community have raised issues with the PLA's in some 64's, but this is not such a big issue as there are modern day subsitutes :-)

If you all looking to play the odd game, there are modern C2N replacements or a device called the SD2IEC.

Check out Lemon 64 for more like minded peeps, and as always google is your friend :-)
6502 Junkie :-)

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5031
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Commodore 64

Postby danielj » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:27 am

Totally agree! lumafix + s-video is as good as the output from the c64 can get. Sd2iec is excellent, and I'd also recommend getting a jiffydos switcher, it speeds up loading hugely.

d.

User avatar
topcat96
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:17 am
Location: Somewhere wonderful!

Re: Commodore 64

Postby topcat96 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:27 am

If you are considering an sd2iec C64 setup then I would recommend an Epyx Fastload cartridge which puts loading speeds on par with JiffyDOS in a simple plug-in solution.

Image

https://www.thefuturewas8bit.com/shop/c ... /eflr.html
Image

iainjh
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 11:18 am

Re: Commodore 64

Postby iainjh » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:13 pm

just agreeing on what everyone else said really; cheapest/ simplest is a standard c64, s-video cable and sd2iec. ive got a lumafix in mine and its nicer but not essential.

thefuturewas8bit.com make nice simple sd2iec boards you can fit internally later on.

might be worth pinging thecorfiot on here in case he's got one, he fitted jiffydos to mine and that gives access to a simple menu loader. Might save on some postage!

then you can pretend its her computer and you can play dropzone, flip&flop etc :)

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5031
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Commodore 64

Postby danielj » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:49 pm

And actually, whilst you're at it, fitting a reset button is probably the other thing that's worth doing - and if you get the epyx cartridge that's built in. I put my own in and rolled my own JiffyDOS ROM/C64 ROM (you can buy the image: http://store.go4retro.com/jiffydos-64-k ... lay-image/). I got my SD2IEC from TheCorfiot.

d.

User avatar
DutchAcorn
Posts: 1544
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:56 am
Location: Maarn, Netherlands

Re: Commodore 64

Postby DutchAcorn » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:24 pm

One thing to look out for is the SID sound chip. The C64 can appear to be working with a faulty sound chip and a replacement chip may cost you as much as a "new" C64 on eBay.
Paul

User avatar
MartinB
Posts: 4496
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Obscurity

Re: Commodore 64

Postby MartinB » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:35 pm

Unbelievably, I just simultaneously posted exactly the same thing as Paul! :shock: - SID chips are worth more than C64's on the open market these days (BeebSID hasn't helped!) and I do know of folk receiving C64's with either an empty space or where a fake dud has been swapped in with the trader selling the C64 as not fully tested.... [-X :roll:

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Commodore 64

Postby Lardo Boffin » Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:50 pm

Thanks all. What is a reasonable guide price for one of these? Looking on eBay they seem to vary a lot.
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
topcat96
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:17 am
Location: Somewhere wonderful!

Re: Commodore 64

Postby topcat96 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:09 pm

Look for a C64c instead of the usual "breadbin" model. They are a lot cheaper to buy.

I personally wouldn't pay any more than £45 for a basic setup, then add on the cost of the sd2iec and jiffyDOS or Fastload.
Image

javierglez
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 10:11 am

Re: Commodore 64

Postby javierglez » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:58 pm

Instead of sd2iec + fastloader I'd go for the 1541 Ultimate 2+. It ensures 1541 compatibility which is important for demos and sd2iec certainly doesn't. I don't know if the fastloader covers for it but I doubt it. Besides the ultimate provides stereosid emulation and ram expansion and partial support for networking. If you get a real 1541 bundled with the 64 then sd2iec is good enough though

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5031
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Commodore 64

Postby danielj » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:06 pm

Although it is about £100 more expensive :?

d.

javierglez
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 10:11 am

Re: Commodore 64

Postby javierglez » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:24 pm

I think the actual difference is like 90€, plus you spare the fastloader. sd2iec loads cracked games, and nothing else.

User avatar
topcat96
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:17 am
Location: Somewhere wonderful!

Re: Commodore 64

Postby topcat96 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:38 pm

javierglez wrote:sd2iec loads cracked games, and nothing else.


Speaking from experience, my sd2iec has handled any D64, D81, D71, M2I images as well as PRG's that I care to throw at it. Your comment about it loading cracked games only is incorrect. The only thing an sd2iec does not do well is True Drive Emulation, but then again neither did the real 1541 disk drive 100% of the time.
Image

javierglez
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 10:11 am

Re: Commodore 64

Postby javierglez » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:06 pm

The Ultimate emulates 1541 drive which has its own 6502, ram & rom. The sd2iec originally was just another serial bus compatible device. They've been upgrading the firmware, and fixing lots of disk images *games-no demos*, to improve compatibility.

User avatar
topcat96
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:17 am
Location: Somewhere wonderful!

Re: Commodore 64

Postby topcat96 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:12 pm

The OP only wants a setup for his wife (and him) for games usage ... an Ultimate 1541 is a bit of an overkill in that regard. :D
Image

javierglez
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 10:11 am

Re: Commodore 64

Postby javierglez » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:28 pm

Newly built readers is a hot topic, I think there are a few more choices, Easyflash, Chameleon.
Recently bought a yellowed Master + Datacenter & 3,5"dd from Retroclinic. Came upon a couple of messages here in this forum and then decided.

javierglez
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 10:11 am

Re: Commodore 64

Postby javierglez » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:14 pm

A hardware kind of guy will certainly enjoy more replacing kernel rom with jiffydos (usually unsocketed), saudering the internal sd2iec and a reset line and then modding the case for those.

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Commodore 64

Postby Lardo Boffin » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:27 pm

Im definitely looking to keep costs and effort to a minimum at this stage - I don't know how much usage this will get. If it turns out to be a lot I will doubtless improve things. I do like messing with hardware but know nothing about C64s yet as I never had one.

At this stage my priorities are:-

1) Decent video output
2) Being able to load games I can download (not too fussed about speed, so long as it is faster than cassette!)

I would of course buy a copy of Aztec Challenge and a cassette player but it seems a little rare.

Lardo
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5031
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Commodore 64

Postby danielj » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:52 pm

SD2IEC and away you go then. Or a datasette: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122582139692

But then you have to mess about with tapes...

:)

d.

chinnyhill10
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:37 pm

Re: Commodore 64

Postby chinnyhill10 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:19 am

topcat96 wrote:The OP only wants a setup for his wife (and him) for games usage ... an Ultimate 1541 is a bit of an overkill in that regard. :D


Indeed. I own an Ultimate 2 and an SD2IEC

While the Ultimate 2 is lovely, it is very expensive and does stuff the average games player won't care less about. The SD2IEC is a hundred quid less and does most stuff the average games player wants. Disk swapping involves button pressing but that aside it's pain free.

One gotcha if you are planning to use S-Video, the 64's output might approximate S-Video but is actually intended for Commodore monitors. So you may find it doesn't work on all devices or looks rubbish. For ChinnyVision early attempts at capturing from the higher quality signal failed until I found something that was happy with the slightly out of spec signal.

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5031
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Commodore 64

Postby danielj » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:28 am

@Chinny - did you try the lumafix board? it sorted out the picture on all my LCD sets?

chinnyhill10
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:37 pm

Re: Commodore 64

Postby chinnyhill10 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:58 pm

danielj wrote:@Chinny - did you try the lumafix board? it sorted out the picture on all my LCD sets?


No. It's on the list of potential things to do. But my S-Video capture is clean so that's the main thing.

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Commodore 64

Postby Lardo Boffin » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:14 pm

Thanks for the advice all and thanks for the hardware (topcat96)! The picture is just using RGB at the moment and to be honest is pretty good. Would a lumafix make any difference to this or does it just affect s-video?

I managed to find a copy of Aztec Challenge on cassette - admittedly a reissue not the first release but beggars can't be choosers and all that.


IMG_6519.JPG


This game is as hard as nails! Also I may be running out of space on my retro desk...

Lardo
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5031
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Commodore 64

Postby danielj » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:55 pm

I thought the c64 only did s-video, or composite?

d.

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Commodore 64

Postby Lardo Boffin » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:33 pm

Sorry - not RGB. Bit distracted when posting!

It's connected to a SCART socket.
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 6587
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...

Re: Commodore 64

Postby 1024MAK » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:43 pm

Lardo Boffin wrote:Sorry - not RGB. Bit distracted when posting!

It's connected to a SCART socket.

Err, SCART is "just a connector". SCART can carry composite video OR RGB OR S-Video. If you look at your TVs settings, it should tell you if you are using composite or S-Video. If it does not say S-Video, then it is defaulting to composite video. You can also tell by looking inside the SCART plug, or the DIN plug and reporting here on which pins are connected (or looking it up). You still need to see what signal the TV has been set to receive.

I use S-Video with my C64 and C128 machines, as the separation of the colour encoded signal from the luminance offers a better quality picture than composite video.

Mark
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk NOW!
BeebWiki‬ - for answers to many questions...

Commie_User
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:50 am

Re: Commodore 64

Postby Commie_User » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:46 am

topcat96 wrote:Look for a C64c instead of the usual "breadbin" model. They are a lot cheaper to buy.

I personally wouldn't pay any more than £45 for a basic setup, then add on the cost of the sd2iec and jiffyDOS or Fastload.



A breadbin may be a good buy if affordable and peak condition because some games look better with it and the sample channel is the right volume. You'll know when running Turbo Out Run. Its music is one of the towering heights of 64 music.

Also, use a multimeter to check the power supply output. Knackered BBC PSUs just go out, while Commie ones overload the board with voltages which fry the peripherals.

Commie_User
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:50 am

Re: Commodore 64

Postby Commie_User » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:49 am

Lardo Boffin wrote:Thanks for the advice all and thanks for the hardware (topcat96)!
...
Also I may be running out of space on my retro desk...

Lardo


Congratulations on your upgrade to the executive class of computer. A wise decision. Just don't use the BASIC or expect to do too many intermediate projects on it...

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 6587
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...

Re: Commodore 64

Postby 1024MAK » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:52 pm

I thought the C128 in a metal case with built in FDD and separate keyboard was the height of Commodore 8 bit (the C128DCR) :P

Mark
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk NOW!
BeebWiki‬ - for answers to many questions...


Return to “off-topic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests