MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

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KayjayUK
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MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

Postby KayjayUK » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:31 pm

Has any had any experience with one of these? I had one delivered today and try as I might it won't program, I have all the settings correct, the eprom selected correctly, a 2764, it blank checks it fine then when I hit program it give an error on the first byte and stops giving no reason apart from Error!!

Has anyone used one and come across this problem? If anyone wants to have a look at the software it can be d/l from this link http://www.autoelectric.cn/MiniPro/minipro_setup.rar

Thanks guys
Keith
From little Acorns great Beebs grow!

lcww1
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Re: MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

Postby lcww1 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:19 pm

I’ve used one a few times without any problems on a Win7 netbook - I just downloaded the software (from the same place as your link, as far as I can remember) - I did update the firmware though, as soon as I got the device, and before I started using it to burn any EPROMs - have you tried updating to the latest firmware? Also, have you tried more than one EPROM, and have you successfully used the EPROM(s) in question before?

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hoglet
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Re: MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

Postby hoglet » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:21 pm

Many modern Chinese EPROM Programmers struggle with original 21V EPROM. I have a Genius G540 and it has the same issue.

Do you have any 27C64 / 27C128 / 27C256 EPROMs you could try instead?

KayjayUK
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Re: MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

Postby KayjayUK » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:44 pm

lcww1 wrote:I’ve used one a few times without any problems on a Win7 netbook - I just downloaded the software (from the same place as your link, as far as I can remember) - I did update the firmware though, as soon as I got the device, and before I started using it to burn any EPROMs - have you tried updating to the latest firmware? Also, have you tried more than one EPROM, and have you successfully used the EPROM(s) in question before?


The seller updates the firmware before he dispatches. I did look at doing it and the 'Reflash Firmware' Command is greyed out. I assume that means it has the latest on it, does it automatically check online to see if it needs to update?

I've tried three 2764'w and a couple of 27128's all exactly the same.

Keith
From little Acorns great Beebs grow!

KayjayUK
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Re: MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

Postby KayjayUK » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:46 pm

hoglet wrote:Many modern Chinese EPROM Programmers struggle with original 21V EPROM. I have a Genius G540 and it has the same issue.

Do you have any 27C64 / 27C128 / 27C256 EPROMs you could try instead?


Yes, of course, it will struggle and have a problem achieving the 21v via USB.

I don't have any C variants but I can get some also I have some PIC's somewhere I can try.

Keith
From little Acorns great Beebs grow!

Boydie
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Re: MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

Postby Boydie » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:13 pm

I’ve been using one for several months now. It works fine with seriously ancient (getting on for 40 years old) 27128s (mostly 21v) and 27256s, including ones my Watford Adder refused to work with. Never needed to try it with 2764s.

It runs fine under Windows10 (64). My nearest convenient usb socket is usb3, so maybe that’s supplying extra juice for 21v? Plus the motherboard is set up for high-current phone charging.

If you don’t get the manufacturer/model of eprom exactly right it quite often complains, but that tends to be when asked to blank check or read the chip and I never get as far as trying to program.
A few manufacturer/model combinations aren’t in its database, but I’ve found there’s always an alternative which works instead.

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1024MAK
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Re: MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

Postby 1024MAK » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:08 pm

For a 2764 EPROM, the 5V supply current when active can be as much as 150mA alone.
The programming current can be as much as 30mA (at 21V). Some EPROMs may need around 50mA.
If the DC/DC step up converter was perfect (no losses), 30mA at 21V equates to 126mA at 5V. Assume that it is 75% efficient and the 5V figure is 168mA.

Total so far is 318mA.

Then there is the current consumed by the programmers own circuitry.

So as you can see, the load on the +5V USB supply is rather higher than you may have first thought. So use a good quality USB lead to minimise volt drop and use a USB port that can supply plenty of power.

When you read the EPROM, does every memory location read as 'FF'?

Also, are these known good EPROMs? Or chips from China?

Mark
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KayjayUK
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Re: MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

Postby KayjayUK » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:38 pm

1024MAK wrote:For a 2764 EPROM, the 5V supply current when active can be as much as 150mA alone.
The programming current can be as much as 30mA (at 21V). Some EPROMs may need around 50mA.
If the DC/DC step up converter was perfect (no losses), 30mA at 21V equates to 126mA at 5V. Assume that it is 75% efficient and the 5V figure is 168mA.

Total so far is 318mA.

Then there is the current consumed by the programmers own circuitry.

So as you can see, the load on the +5V USB supply is rather higher than you may have first thought. So use a good quality USB lead to minimise volt drop and use a USB port that can supply plenty of power.

When you read the EPROM, does every memory location read as 'FF'?

Also, are these known good EPROMs? Or chips from China?

Mark


Thanks for the tips Mark.

The chips I have all stretch back to the 80's time when I previously had a Beeb and they are various makes, SGS-Thompson, Intel etc. I assume these are all good reliable makes.

Yes, I did get FF on all bytes.

I have now successfully programmed both 2764 and 27128 types. I found that the programmer was preselecting 12.5v for Vpp, shifting this up to 21v made all the difference. I also increased the pulse delay from 200uS to 1000uS. I am assuming that this is the delay between writes and by increasing the time I can allow the chip to cool a touch before moving to the next byte to be programmed. As the voltage is at 21v I thought this prudent.

Thanks
Keith
From little Acorns great Beebs grow!

cmorley
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Re: MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

Postby cmorley » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:53 am

KayjayUK wrote: I found that the programmer was preselecting 12.5v for Vpp, shifting this up to 21v made all the difference. I also increased the pulse delay from 200uS to 1000uS. I am assuming that this is the delay between writes and by increasing the time I can allow the chip to cool a touch before moving to the next byte to be programmed. As the voltage is at 21v I thought this prudent.


I have one and it works fine.

The programmer just selects the algorithm values from the database depending on what chip you have pre selected as the target.
e.g. choose a TI TM2764 and you will get:
VPP: 21, VDD write 5, VCC verify 5 & Puls delay 1000us

It won't detect old chips which don't implement mfg & device IDs. So you have to set the chip manually and check the settings. (Some chips require 6v VCC while programming for example on their datasheets - so may program or unreliably at 5v only). Better 12v for a 21v device than the other way round.

I think the "pulse delay" is the time it holds the write pulse for not the time between cells. The fast program algorithms from the 80s typically state "try a 1ms pulse then try again until the byte is programmed" or slow method of hold the VPP for 20ms (or whatever the datasheet says). Since many cells will program after a few 1ms (1000us) pulses the EPROM programs in 1/10th the time (1s vs 20s). As chips got larger and faster the 1ms pulse was too long so shorter pulses were used. The profile for a more modern ST M27c4002 for example is 13.5v, 6.25vccp, 5vccv & 100us.

Defintely not as good as my Wellon (which was 10x the price) but a great little programmer. The only thing I've had problems with are Atmel PLDs which are not in the official list to be fair.

KayjayUK
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Re: MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

Postby KayjayUK » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:03 am

cmorley wrote:
KayjayUK wrote: I found that the programmer was preselecting 12.5v for Vpp, shifting this up to 21v made all the difference. I also increased the pulse delay from 200uS to 1000uS. I am assuming that this is the delay between writes and by increasing the time I can allow the chip to cool a touch before moving to the next byte to be programmed. As the voltage is at 21v I thought this prudent.


I have one and it works fine.

The programmer just selects the algorithm values from the database depending on what chip you have pre selected as the target.
e.g. choose a TI TM2764 and you will get:
VPP: 21, VDD write 5, VCC verify 5 & Puls delay 1000us

It won't detect old chips which don't implement mfg & device IDs. So you have to set the chip manually and check the settings. (Some chips require 6v VCC while programming for example on their datasheets - so may program or unreliably at 5v only). Better 12v for a 21v device than the other way round.

I think the "pulse delay" is the time it holds the write pulse for not the time between cells. The fast program algorithms from the 80s typically state "try a 1ms pulse then try again until the byte is programmed" or slow method of hold the VPP for 20ms (or whatever the datasheet says). Since many cells will program after a few 1ms (1000us) pulses the EPROM programs in 1/10th the time (1s vs 20s). As chips got larger and faster the 1ms pulse was too long so shorter pulses were used. The profile for a more modern ST M27c4002 for example is 13.5v, 6.25vccp, 5vccv & 100us.

Defintely not as good as my Wellon (which was 10x the price) but a great little programmer. The only thing I've had problems with are Atmel PLDs which are not in the official list to be fair.



Thanks Chris.

That has cleared up a few points for me for sure and also qualified some of my thoughts. I can happily continue using it.

I also have a Willem 4.0 programmer but that works on parallel ports and even after adding a card to my WIN10 machine there is a conflict in the software, either in the Willem software or in Windoze. I do have an old comp I can recombine with Win98 which is the last win version I used the programmer with but to be honest it's not worth it, this MiniPro is superb for the job plus it will help with PICs etc which I sometimes build circuits around.

Keith
From little Acorns great Beebs grow!

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sirmorris
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Re: MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

Postby sirmorris » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:14 am

Another benefit of this little beauty is that there is open source software available for Mac & Linux. It's not GUI, and certainly not fully featured but it works for the most part.

https://github.com/vdudouyt/minipro

DigitalDunc
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Re: MiniPro TL866 Eprom Programmer

Postby DigitalDunc » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:58 pm

I use a minipro from Linux and whilst the minipro within doesn't give you a GUI, I do seem to remember there being a GUI front-end. Not only that but it's more easily driven from within a script or makefile than the Windows program is. I use it to push 6502 code to 28C256's frequently.

As for the fact it's Linux software being a github source, I have to say that it was one of the easiest to build from said source in a long time.

It may not be the best programmer in the world but it's been a great bit of kit for me!


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