Today I overclocked my A3010

Arc/RPCs, peripherals, RISCOS operating system & ARM kit eg GP2x, BeagleBoard
User avatar
vectorlight
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:23 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby vectorlight » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:43 am

munchausen wrote:vectorlight, how much did you have to shave off of the SOJ sockets to get them to fit? After quite a lot of wrangling, I've finished the design with the correct measurements, and by jove is it tight! I think each socket will need to slim down by at least a couple of mm to fit.


Your design looks great :D

I filed off a bit from the left of the left-side socket and right of the right-side socket so they would butt-up against the header pins. On the IFEL board the socket contacts are not fully over the pads but enough to solder them on. Could you solder the chips straight on to the board that would take the socket size out of the equation? :)
3D Printing and Acorn A3010 Owner!

munchausen
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 8:53 am

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby munchausen » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:46 am

BigEd wrote:Possible idea: move those two vias which sit between the headers and the surface mount pads to be outboard of the header holes - even if you need three or four vias, you'll have more space between the headers, at the expense of a slightly wider board. (I'm assuming a slightly wider board will still fit!)


I have thought about this, and yeah you can't move those without adding a few more vias. The board can be wider as long as the sockets don't move. It buys you a little bit more space between the connectors (like 25 thou, or a bit more than half a mm), I'm not sure if it's worth it?

Zarchos
Posts: 2355
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 8:19 am
Location: FRANCE

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby Zarchos » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:53 am

Sorry if you explained that before and I don't remember, but how will you solder either the sockets or the chips ?
With a soldering iron or with a heating gun and some soldering paste ?

munchausen
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 8:53 am

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby munchausen » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:01 am

vectorlight wrote:
munchausen wrote:vectorlight, how much did you have to shave off of the SOJ sockets to get them to fit? After quite a lot of wrangling, I've finished the design with the correct measurements, and by jove is it tight! I think each socket will need to slim down by at least a couple of mm to fit.


Your design looks great :D

I filed off a bit from the left of the left-side socket and right of the right-side socket so they would butt-up against the header pins. On the IFEL board the socket contacts are not fully over the pads but enough to solder them on. Could you solder the chips straight on to the board that would take the socket size out of the equation? :)


Thanks :) I'm still learning about PCB design, so I'm quite happy with it (hope it works).

I can solder the ICs straight on and there should be plenty of room, but I know people are swapping RAM ICs around so wasn't sure whether to go for sockets. On the other hand, I don't think there are any faster RAMs out there, so there might not be any point. It would also reduce the cost a bit.

munchausen
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 8:53 am

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby munchausen » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:02 am

Zarchos wrote:Sorry if you explained that before and I don't remember, but how will you solder either the sockets or the chips ?
With a soldering iron or with a heating gun and some soldering paste ?


Heat gun: I don't think it is really possible to do it with an iron, at least when using sockets.

User avatar
vectorlight
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:23 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby vectorlight » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:24 am

munchausen wrote:I can solder the ICs straight on and there should be plenty of room, but I know people are swapping RAM ICs around so wasn't sure whether to go for sockets. On the other hand, I don't think there are any faster RAMs out there, so there might not be any point. It would also reduce the cost a bit.


Yeah, I think solder them straight on and will save you the hassle of trying to fit the sockets. I've searched for faster RAM but couldn't find any. I'm pretty sure those 50NS Micron chips are the best we'll get. It may be possible to get some 45NS RAM from another manufacturer but there's no guarantee that it will be overclockable as much as the Micron RAMs (37NS) :D
3D Printing and Acorn A3010 Owner!

Zarchos
Posts: 2355
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 8:19 am
Location: FRANCE

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby Zarchos » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:29 am

vectorlight wrote:
munchausen wrote:I can solder the ICs straight on and there should be plenty of room, but I know people are swapping RAM ICs around so wasn't sure whether to go for sockets. On the other hand, I don't think there are any faster RAMs out there, so there might not be any point. It would also reduce the cost a bit.


Yeah, I think solder them straight on and will save you the hassle of trying to fit the sockets. I've searched for faster RAM but couldn't find any. I'm pretty sure those 50NS Micron chips are the best we'll get. It may be possible to get some 45NS RAM from another manufacturer but there's no guarantee that it will be overclockable as much as the Micron RAMs (37NS) :D


And why ?
Are Micron RAMs well known for excellence ?
I don't know much about all this.

User avatar
vectorlight
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:23 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby vectorlight » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:50 am

Zarchos wrote:And why ?
Are Micron RAMs well known for excellence ?
I don't know much about all this.


No reason, but if you want the hassle of fitting/soldering sockets into that small space and buying other 50NS RAM to test then be my guest :D I'm happy with the Micron chips :D
3D Printing and Acorn A3010 Owner!

Zarchos
Posts: 2355
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 8:19 am
Location: FRANCE

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby Zarchos » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:52 am

vectorlight wrote:
Zarchos wrote:And why ?
Are Micron RAMs well known for excellence ?
I don't know much about all this.


No reason, but if you want the hassle of fitting/soldering sockets into that small space and buying other 50NS RAM to test then be my guest :D I'm happy with the Micron chips :D


Ah ok.
And which manufacturer has some 45ns chips ?
Could you give the reference, please ?

User avatar
vectorlight
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:23 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby vectorlight » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:05 am

Zarchos wrote:Ah ok.
And which manufacturer has some 45ns chips ?
Could you give the reference, please ?


These ones: T2316160A-45, they look compatible? If you find someone selling these let us know :D
3D Printing and Acorn A3010 Owner!

Zarchos
Posts: 2355
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 8:19 am
Location: FRANCE

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby Zarchos » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:10 am

vectorlight wrote:
Zarchos wrote:Ah ok.
And which manufacturer has some 45ns chips ?
Could you give the reference, please ?


These ones: T2316160A-45, they look compatible? If you find someone selling these let us know :D


I really don't know how to search for memory chips given the characteristics you're looking for.
Isn't there a database somewhere available on the Net ?


I understand you're unsure about the compatability, aren't you ? for these T2316160A-45 ...

User avatar
vectorlight
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:23 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby vectorlight » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:26 am

That's right I'm no expert at this sort of thing. To my knowledge the RAM for this IFEL board needs to be: 1M X 16-bit FPM DRAM, 5V and come in a 42-pin SOJ package. There's more to it than that I'm sure, but those are the basics. I've pretty much given up finding better RAM it's already cost me a lot of time/money etc. Time to move on to my next project :D
3D Printing and Acorn A3010 Owner!

Zarchos
Posts: 2355
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 8:19 am
Location: FRANCE

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby Zarchos » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:28 am

vectorlight wrote:That's right I'm no expert at this sort of thing. To my knowledge the RAM for this IFEL board needs to be: 1M X 16-bit FPM DRAM, 5V and come in a 42-pin SOJ package. There's more to it than that I'm sure, but those are the basics. I've pretty much given up finding better RAM it's already cost me a lot of time/money etc. Time to move on to my next project :D


which is gonna be ??? =D>

User avatar
vectorlight
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:23 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby vectorlight » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:03 am

Zarchos wrote:which is gonna be ??? =D>


Probably get my PI sorted out finally with RISC OS :D
3D Printing and Acorn A3010 Owner!

munchausen
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 8:53 am

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby munchausen » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:37 pm

I'd still like to try out those 28ns RAMs after this, but at least to start with the expansion will only be 1M. That should be enough to see how fast the rest of the system can go, then if it's worth while I'll see about a larger/faster expansion.

Did some of you guys have spare 50ns RAMs? Occurred to me that I could buy some of your spares instead of ordering more if unless you need to save them for something.

User avatar
vectorlight
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:23 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby vectorlight » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:51 pm

munchausen wrote:Did some of you guys have spare 50ns RAMs? Occurred to me that I could buy some of your spares instead of ordering more if unless you need to save them for something.


Yeah sure, PM me your address and I'll send you a bunch of them :D
3D Printing and Acorn A3010 Owner!

User avatar
vectorlight
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:23 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby vectorlight » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:08 pm

munchausen wrote:I'd still like to try out those 28ns RAMs after this, but at least to start with the expansion will only be 1M. That should be enough to see how fast the rest of the system can go, then if it's worth while I'll see about a larger/faster expansion.


Yep good point, its certainly worth trying them out and see what you can get out of it. Then if it can work at 28NS (35mhz) make a "mega turbo upgrade" board or something with the full 4MB :D Though I think the ROM's will fail at that speed. #-o
3D Printing and Acorn A3010 Owner!

AndyMc1280
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:50 am

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby AndyMc1280 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:21 pm

vectorlight wrote:
munchausen wrote:Did some of you guys have spare 50ns RAMs? Occurred to me that I could buy some of your spares instead of ordering more if unless you need to save them for something.


Yeah sure, PM me your address and I'll send you a bunch of them :D



Likewise if you need any (more) let me know, I have lost of spares and sockets too. 8)

Zarchos
Posts: 2355
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 8:19 am
Location: FRANCE

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby Zarchos » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:58 pm

AndyMc1280 wrote:
vectorlight wrote:
munchausen wrote:Did some of you guys have spare 50ns RAMs? Occurred to me that I could buy some of your spares instead of ordering more if unless you need to save them for something.


Yeah sure, PM me your address and I'll send you a bunch of them :D



Likewise if you need any (more) let me know, I have lost of spares and sockets too. 8)


I'm still interested, too.

I've got a couple of IFEL boards, and I could desolder the chips and solder these faster ones.

User avatar
vectorlight
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:23 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby vectorlight » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:26 pm

I've done a few more tests with larger crystals (90mhz) and it looks like 26mhz (80mhz crystal) is the best you will get from these RAM chips. :o

I ordered a bunch of these chips MSM5416258B-28J that munchausen identified as possible replacement mainboard RAM so will have a play with them this weekend maybe :D

I also managed to find the time to make a video comparing two A3010's booting up and running Star Fighter 3000 to see the difference between 12MHZ (on the left) and 26MHZ (on the right). Apologies for the quality of the video I had to hold the camera whilst operating both machines. :D Not sure how to embed youtube videos on this forum, so here are the direct links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2gro6XUJVk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uP-cQ43EAw
Last edited by vectorlight on Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
3D Printing and Acorn A3010 Owner!

AndyMc1280
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:50 am

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby AndyMc1280 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:28 pm

26 Mhz is still faster than 12Mhz :D

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3603
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby paulv » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:45 pm

Got to say, even though my thoughts on overclocking are to no do so, that is quite an impressive difference in the performance of the machine =D> =D> =D>

Paul

steve3000
Posts: 1711
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:43 am

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby steve3000 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:12 pm

I hope your A3010 is still ticking along nicely at 26MHz... because I'd like to know if, as a result of the increased RAM speed, you have solved the problem of 800x600 in 256 colours?

This screen mode (intended to be MODE 32) doesn't actually exist in RISC OS 3.1, but if you have !CustomVDU it's easy to create (happy to provide a module if you don't have !CustomVDU to hand). I'm not sure if Acorn intended to introduce MODE 32 and then realised it didn't work, so scrapped it - but they left a gap in their mode numbering scheme, so they clearly thought about it...

MODES 29-31 at 800x600 run the VIDC at 36MHz, and this resolution works nicely in up to 16 colours on most Archimedes (apart from some very early VIDCs, most of which will have been replaced early on...). But when you try 256 colours at 800x600, even with 12MHz RAM, the display 'sparkles' with random pixels - presumably due to insufficient memory bandwidth to deliver all the required data to the VIDC in time for display.

Unless there is something else causing the bottleneck, your 26MHz RAM would certainly help and might enable you to use 800x600 in 256 colours... :D

User avatar
vectorlight
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:23 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby vectorlight » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:47 am

steve3000 wrote:This screen mode (intended to be MODE 32) doesn't actually exist in RISC OS 3.1, but if you have !CustomVDU it's easy to create (happy to provide a module if you don't have !CustomVDU to hand). I'm not sure if Acorn intended to introduce MODE 32 and then realised it didn't work, so scrapped it - but they left a gap in their mode numbering scheme, so they clearly thought about it...


Hi Steve, Sure I can give this a try. I do not have the !CustomVDU app, do you have a link for it? Or if you could attach the module to this thread that would be great and I'll try it out. :D
3D Printing and Acorn A3010 Owner!

Zarchos
Posts: 2355
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 8:19 am
Location: FRANCE

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby Zarchos » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:44 pm

No idea if it's a good idea to post it and maybe it's been said already but this chip :
Infineon hyb5118160bsj-50 is also a 5V 1Mx16 CMOS FPM DRAM and should be compatable. (It's available on EBay, but there are more offers for 60ns chips than 50ns chips).

I've just found a whole tube of about a hundred I had bought some years ago (you see sometimes it's a good idea to decide you're going to paint some walls in your house : in that case you must move the stuff that has been collecting the dust for so long #-o ).

EBay compulsive buying disorder I hear in the audience [-X

User avatar
vectorlight
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:23 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby vectorlight » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:06 pm

Zarchos wrote:I've just found a whole tube of about a hundred I had bought some years ago (you see sometimes it's a good idea to decide you're going to paint some walls in your house : in that case you must move the stuff that has been collecting the dust for so long #-o ).


Time to do the spider RAM trick again? :D There's not much point looking for faster A3010 RAM as the CPU looks to be limited to 26mhz anyway as I discovered on the A3020. :D
3D Printing and Acorn A3010 Owner!

Zarchos
Posts: 2355
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 8:19 am
Location: FRANCE

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby Zarchos » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:13 pm

vectorlight wrote:
Zarchos wrote:I've just found a whole tube of about a hundred I had bought some years ago (you see sometimes it's a good idea to decide you're going to paint some walls in your house : in that case you must move the stuff that has been collecting the dust for so long #-o ).


Time to do the spider RAM trick again? :D There's not much point looking for faster A3010 RAM as the CPU looks to be limited to 26mhz anyway as I discovered on the A3020. :D


Well I'll do that when I'm in a good mood, in case it doesn't work ... slaughtering an A3010 in anger wouldn't help.
I'm 1st going to use my filling routines in the Bad Apple demo project ... it has more chances to succeed. :?

steve3000
Posts: 1711
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:43 am

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby steve3000 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:01 pm

vectorlight wrote:Or if you could attach the module to this thread that would be great and I'll try it out. :D

Ok, I have attached my 'Mode 32' equivalent here - it's actually MODE 127, so load it up and enter MODE 127...

800 x 600 in 256 colours = 469kb, pretty much the maximum mode size possible on the VIDC1/MEMC Arc.

Question is, does it work? :D
Attachments
Md32-127.zip
(597 Bytes) Downloaded 19 times

User avatar
vectorlight
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:23 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby vectorlight » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:44 pm

steve3000 wrote:800 x 600 in 256 colours = 469kb, pretty much the maximum mode size possible on the VIDC1/MEMC Arc.

Question is, does it work? :D


Thanks Steve :D The answer to your question is yes. It works no problems. Using the desktop is still pretty slick, the CPU still has 68% of the RAM access available :D :

Image

Now if only 1024x768 was possible :shock:
3D Printing and Acorn A3010 Owner!

steve3000
Posts: 1711
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:43 am

Re: Today I overclocked my A3010

Postby steve3000 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:07 pm

vectorlight wrote:Thanks Steve :D The answer to your question is yes. It works no problems. Using the desktop is still pretty slick, the CPU still has 68% of the RAM access available :D

Excellent! I'd always wondered if faster RAM would solve that particular problem :)

vectorlight wrote:Now if only 1024x768 was possible :shock:

Well... IanB's solution to use an adafruit clock generator board should work on the A3010, and with that you'll be able to feed the vidc any frequency you like :) Vidc is good to 45+Mhz on older computers - enough for 1024x768 at 50Hz (although you'll need to find a monitor which accepts that...). The setup may need some modification, possibly to feed the adafruit clock direct into the ARM250 in place of the 36MHz clock...?


Return to “hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests