A3020 EtherLan 210

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vectorlight
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A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby vectorlight » Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:28 am

I have one of these devices in a newly aquired A3020:

Image

Does anyone know if they're of any use these days? I doubt you can get online with them? I seem to be missing the RJ45 adapter as well, any ideas where a replacement can be obtained? :D
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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby Zarchos » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:54 am

When they sell on Ebay they're rather expensive so it's a good catch (with your very cheap A3020 ;-) ).
Lucky you !
Interesting maybe not to connect to the Internet but to include an Archie in your own network, yes !

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby IanS » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:58 am

I see no reaon why you couldn't get online with one, it's no more or less capable than any other ethernet card on a Arc (assuming you have the right interface adapter for it).

Frustratingly IIRC, Acorn chose not to use the standard AUI pin-out for the 15-pin external connector (pressumably as it also had to do double duty for econet, if fitted. You may be able to work out an adapter cable to go from the Arc to a standard AUI.

AUI - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_Unit_Interface

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby vectorlight » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:17 pm

IanS wrote:I see no reaon why you couldn't get online with one, it's no more or less capable than any other ethernet card on a Arc (assuming you have the right interface adapter for it).

Frustratingly IIRC, Acorn chose not to use the standard AUI pin-out for the 15-pin external connector (pressumably as it also had to do double duty for econet, if fitted. You may be able to work out an adapter cable to go from the Arc to a standard AUI.

AUI - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_Unit_Interface


Cool thanks for that link. :D I may try and get hold of one of these adapters http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Connector-Adaptor-Shell-RS-232-DB-15-Male-to-RJ-45-Female-NOS-Qty-7-/142020534994 and wire it up then.
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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby JonC » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:33 pm

vectorlight wrote:
IanS wrote:I see no reaon why you couldn't get online with one, it's no more or less capable than any other ethernet card on a Arc (assuming you have the right interface adapter for it).

Frustratingly IIRC, Acorn chose not to use the standard AUI pin-out for the 15-pin external connector (pressumably as it also had to do double duty for econet, if fitted. You may be able to work out an adapter cable to go from the Arc to a standard AUI.

AUI - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_Unit_Interface


Cool thanks for that link. :D I may try and get hold of one of these adapters http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Connector-Adaptor-Shell-RS-232-DB-15-Male-to-RJ-45-Female-NOS-Qty-7-/142020534994 and wire it up then.


I think that would only work if the interface is Ethernet capable, I thought AUI connections needed a MAU to connect to Ethernet networks.....

Edit: Pic in first post could be an AUI to RJ45 converter, so I would guess the interface is Ethernet capable.

Edited to fix terminology and typos! :roll:
Last edited by JonC on Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby danielj » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:25 pm

IIRC you can get an MAU for that to run on RJ45 - there was a document knocking around with how to build one... I'll see if I can find it.

d.

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby vectorlight » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:23 pm

danielj wrote:IIRC you can get an MAU for that to run on RJ45 - there was a document knocking around with how to build one... I'll see if I can find it.

d.


That's great, thanks for your help :D
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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby trixster » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:08 pm

I'm pretty sure that's the adapter I've got in my a3020. Will check and report back.
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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby munchausen » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:19 pm

Is there somewhere to find acorns other than fleabay? Seems like people on *. are often getting better deals!

I always assumed the A3020/A4000 etherlan adapter was just a passive 9 pin dsub->RJ45 adapter, only needed because the socket on the back of the machine is not RJ45? i.e. nothing to do with AUI? The adapter pictured does not look like an AUI adapter to me!

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby RobC » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:23 pm

CJE Micros appear to have the 10baseT MAU adapter in stock:
http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/micros/individual/newprodpages/prodinfo.php?prodcode=ACO-4K10BTMAU

Alternatively, I have a 10base2 card in my R260 (as it works under RISCiX) and use one of these to connect it to the rest of my network:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALLIED-TELESYN-AT-MC15-ETHERNET-MEDIA-CONVERTER-/231961544042?hash=item3601fc456a:g:MWEAAOSwvg9XYRTt

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby danielj » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:38 pm


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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby danielj » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:26 am

Right - I've just snaffled one of these from CJE (they do them for £30 with the 10base2 MAU) - I shall see if I can build a 10baseT one. It looks pretty straight forward.

d.

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby munchausen » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:17 am

danielj wrote:Right - I've just snaffled one of these from CJE (they do them for £30 with the 10base2 MAU) - I shall see if I can build a 10baseT one. It looks pretty straight forward.

d.


Are you sure the 10base2 version works with the 10baseT MAU? I presumed there was some other hardware missing. If not I may have to grab one as well (for a future A3010 mod :wink:)

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby danielj » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:10 am

It's the same beast AFAIK, you could buy a 10baseT MAU to plug into it at the same time...

d.

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby munchausen » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:38 am

Looking at http://www.i-cubed.co.uk/ethln200.html you're right. I assumed the 10base2 version didn't have a pulse transformer (because I thought the MAU was just wires and connectors). Shouldn't be hard to make an MAU with a pulse transformer in it... so I'll be snaffling one of these too :)

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby munchausen » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:55 pm

Just had a little look at how you'd go about building an MAU. Adding the magnetic coupler is pretty easy, and is shown in the DP83902A datasheet. The ident pin is a bit more annoying but should be possible with a small counter circuit. Though, looking at the netbsd source code mentioned in the link RobC posted, maybe they actual implementation only checks for a 1 or 0 (10base2/10baseT) instead of actually going with the whole counter scheme.

Don't suppose anyone could crack one of these open and post some pictures?

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby danielj » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:12 pm

I'll pop open the 10base2 one later... (it was a bit of a fiddle)

d.

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby vectorlight » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:52 pm

danielj wrote:Right - I've just snaffled one of these from CJE (they do them for £30 with the 10base2 MAU) - I shall see if I can build a 10baseT one. It looks pretty straight forward.

d.


That would be awesome if you could show how to build one. Its way above me trying to figure this out without a working one to go off. If it does end up being quite involved I may just cough up the money to 4QD :shock:
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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby munchausen » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:10 pm

My EtherLan arrived today, and I immediately cracked open the MAU to see what was in there. There was an ethernet transceiver, and not much else: couple of caps, some resistors, and some 3 pin devices that could be transistors or FETs (or something else). I'll have a more detailed look at some point...

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby danielj » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:09 pm

Is that a 10baseT MAU?

d.

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby munchausen » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:08 pm

danielj wrote:Is that a 10baseT MAU?

d.


No, a 10base2. I think we can do 10baseT though! Just need to look at what they're doing with the IDC/Ident signal on the 10base2 unit. Worryingly I just noticed that the below two (previously referenced) links give different pinouts for the 15 pin connector!

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~theo ... IY-MAU.txt

http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org ... ecIss1.pdf

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby danielj » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:50 am

I was tempted to start with the buzzed out one on the greenend link...

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby TynHau » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:55 am

vectorlight wrote:
Does anyone know if they're of any use these days? I doubt you can get online with them?


Err yes, probably THE most useful upgrade I ever did on my A4000:

http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... 259#p54259

Okay "browsing the web" is more of an academic exercise but being able to FTP files with my Synology NAS has been a godsend. For some reason I never managed to get LanMan98 to work, which would be slightly more convenient.
However downloading stuff from the Internet to the NAS and transferring them to my A4000 couldn't be easier. Certainly beats 3.5" floppies! Being able to save/load to/from USB drives via network by connecting them to my router or NAS also helps.

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby trixster » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:21 am

Have a look at this thread (approx 3/5 of the way down) for getting LanMan working on riscos 3.1

http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... 21#p115421
A3020 | A3000 | A420/1 | BBC B + 128K RAM/ROM + 20K Shadow + Pi0 + VideoNuLA
Master Turbo + DC + BeebSID | Atom | A4000 060 | A3000 060 | A1200 060 | A500
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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby TynHau » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:08 pm

I need an obscure version of !Omni for LanMan98?

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby trixster » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:32 pm

I doubt that, but the version of LanMan discussed in that thread definitely works on 3.1
A3020 | A3000 | A420/1 | BBC B + 128K RAM/ROM + 20K Shadow + Pi0 + VideoNuLA
Master Turbo + DC + BeebSID | Atom | A4000 060 | A3000 060 | A1200 060 | A500
Atari Falcon 060 | Saturn | PS1 | SNES | CPC6128 | C64 | 3DO | MD | Jaguar

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby TynHau » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:13 pm

So I went on a wild goose hunt chasing Omni 2.04 for nothing? Eventually found the RISCafe CD - Java on archive.org, which contained Omni. No luck yet, the same timeout message as before. Maybe I'm missing something.

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby TynHau » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:16 am

okay, so I gave it another try. What do you mean by using LanMan without Omni? AIU LanMan is a protocol used by Omni and not a standalone App. There's a module but that's it. I haven't been able to connect to anything, a few more hours wasted.
Reckon that's why I use Apple nowadays.

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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby trixster » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:01 pm

I was only trying to help. Good attitude pal :roll:
A3020 | A3000 | A420/1 | BBC B + 128K RAM/ROM + 20K Shadow + Pi0 + VideoNuLA
Master Turbo + DC + BeebSID | Atom | A4000 060 | A3000 060 | A1200 060 | A500
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Re: A3020 EtherLan 210

Postby TynHau » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:53 pm

Sorry if I hit a nerve or something but I think you misunderstood. Of course I appreciate your help! It's really the RISC OS ecosystem, or rather lack of, that I find increasingly frustrating. Information tends to be hard to obtain and one has to sift through FTP sites, wayback machine snapshots, tarballs and usenet posts (because forums are apparently the spawn of the devil to some). It just makes things a lot harder than they need to be.
I'm not even complaining about the price tag attached to a significant part of the RISC OS market (I certainly helped keeping some of our dealers afloat over the years and I don't regret it). But everything seems fragmented and difficult, often for no good reason.

Apologies for unintentionally stepping on your toes.