A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Arc/RPCs, peripherals, RISCOS operating system & ARM kit eg GP2x, BeagleBoard
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kppot
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A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby kppot » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:59 pm

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and I am totally noobish with Acorn computers. I recently aquired an A3000 model, last of BBC branded, as a tribute to BBC Micro, which was my first machine, back in 1988. Cant stand those red functional keys. Just joking. My A3000 has 2Mb of RAM extension and HCCS IDE interface. And brand new battery, of course!
So I presume it worked correctly. Also it has formatted CF card (but not installed) as bonus.
So first thing I decided to do was remove Econet module and check J25 jumper (it needed to be switched from monochrome video, as I do use SCART cable). Also before first power up I did reset CMOS with DEL key.
As a result, looks like I've lost my Hard Disk icon and the disk itself.
I've inspected A3000 motherboard to see if serial port chips are installed, then assembled everything back, but Econet podule. Now I hear HD is rotating (making its usual noise), but RISC OS does not shows HD icon. I started my quest to bring HD back
I posted this story on facebook group (link to full story proveded below) and I was told to perform such configuration

*configure idefsdiscs 1
*idefs
*dr. 4
With such I got my Icon back
22770573_10210152448197344_7604349865026165326_o.jpg

but Risc OS gives me FileCore Error
22555642_10210152440677156_1306507499291688593_o.jpg

and there is no catalogue
*. gives error in return
22792191_10210152911568928_6321928871718780931_o.jpg


I attached a CF card (preformatted with APLD when they were still open, so I expected it should work automatically) and with card I have very same File Core error, no drive or catalogue, but I got new
Armstrong Walker IDFS

instead of old

Acorn ADFS
C0C9181F-7B89-4FBC-8596-FCA33D19EF35.JPG

So I give up, help, help, help!
Note I have no mice yet so I cannot run !Configure system programm :(
Full story on Facebook is here
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2204586 ... 465916456/

ajw99uk
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby ajw99uk » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:33 pm

For the Watford Electronics interface there was a utility to initialise the drive and set CMOS. If the APDL CF was initialised for another IDE interface, you may need the equivalent for HCCS IDEFS.* I did briefly have a machine wirh one those interfaces but it's too long ago to recall details, sorry.

* http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org ... idemgr.arc in case you've not already got it.
Running RISCOS: A5000, A540, R140, RiscPC, RPi B
Running *nix: SGI Fuel & Indigo2, RPi2, x86, amd64, RiscPC, A540, R140

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kppot
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby kppot » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:36 am

Right, thanks for the answer. So, basically, I did not broke anything? And I do not need re-format old HD disk or CF card?
And should I use *configure boot and *opt 4,2?
The reason I am asking is just I have no clue how to get any utility software from my PC (which has no floppy) to A3000

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jms2
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby jms2 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:52 am

Здравствуйте kppot,

I have got the same system as you (with same HCCS podule) so hopefully I can help you! I don't think you have broken anything.

So.. did the machine have a traditional hard disc when you got it? Did that work? If so, we should try to get that working first.

*Configure filesystem idefs

Is right, and should give the Armstrong Walker line when you boot. Can you do *status and tell me what the results are for everything (a screen shot will do). If you create a task window first by right clicking on the Acorn you can scroll the window to review the results easily.

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DutchAcorn
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby DutchAcorn » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:01 am

HCCS IDE User Guide wrote:To advise the machine that an IDE hard drive is present the following commands should be entered in Supervisor Mode;

*Con. IDEFSDiscs 1 [RETURN]
*Con. IDEFSDrive 4 [RETURN]
*Con. IDEFSDelay 8 [RETURN]
*Con. IDEFSTimer 4 [RETURN]
*Con. IDEFSDircache 32 [RETURN]
[CTRL] + [BREAK]
Paul

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jms2
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby jms2 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:00 am

Nice one! That is what I was trying to remember.

This should make the hard disc work. However, whether the SD card works or not will depend on whether it was formatted correctly using the HCCS utility.

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kppot
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby kppot » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:14 pm

Hey guys, thanks for helping me!
jms2 wrote: did the machine have a traditional hard disc when you got it? Did that work? If so, we should try to get that working first.

yes it has HD drive onboard in working condition.
So I detached CF and attached old HD back
Then i did
*Con. IDEFSDiscs 1 [RETURN]
*Con. IDEFSDrive 4 [RETURN]
after shift+break i did
*Configure filesystem IDEFS
from supervisor prompt and shift+break
Still I have same error at the boot up
22555642_10210152440677156_1306507499291688593_o.jpg

IDEFS expected more devises - it says and
Filecore error

And here what it says if you do *.
AAD40FD7-828D-4469-9917-0825186A8D0D.PNG


Here is *status screenshot (sorry I can't right click - have no mice yet)
22769580_10210152328434350_7756954417598308705_o.jpg

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DutchAcorn
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby DutchAcorn » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:02 pm

Try all the configuration commands from the userguide as quoted in my earlier post. Notably the IDEFSDelay is now set to 0 on your machine.
Paul

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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby sirbod » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:18 pm

You should configure HardDiscs to 0 if you're using IDEFS

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jms2
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby jms2 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:09 pm

Jon is right - Harddiscs is the number of ST506 drives in the machine, and so should be zero.

However there is another problem which is that the number of IDEFSdiscs is showing as zero after *status, but you set it to one earlier. does your machine have a new battery in it ?

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DutchAcorn
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby DutchAcorn » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:32 pm

jms2 wrote:... However there is another problem which is that the number of IDEFSdiscs is showing as zero after *status, but you set it to one earlier. does your machine have a new battery in it ?

Or perhaps a <ctrl><break> instead of a <shift><break> after entering the config commands?
Paul

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kppot
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby kppot » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:35 pm

Alright, we positively have some movement ahead!
I tried all commands and set Hard Discs to 0. You were absolutely right about Harddiscs. Now I have the number of IDEFSdiscs = 1
Now my
*status
looks this way
8E9BC8A9-BF04-48EB-B44A-3F07265F9074.PNG

but still I do have that exclamation FileCore Error
22555642_10210152440677156_1306507499291688593_o.jpg

How can I check contents of hard drive with no mice? May be this error not that critical?

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kppot
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby kppot » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:47 pm

Ok, I did hard reset (powered off) and then poweren on the machine and came to interesting result. No error at boot up, and IDEFS 4 icon has turned to HardDisk icon
A84E4A42-759C-468E-92EE-36940B5C18F4.JPG

There were no BEEP sound as well. Have we won this round?

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jms2
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby jms2 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:21 pm

I’m worried about the battery. What does *status say now? If it has changed, your battery is dead. The battery is soldered to the pub, so if it is leaking it could destroy the machine.

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danielj
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby danielj » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:41 pm

Should be OK, first post said it's a new one. What does a *cat say now it's stopped moaning about filecore errors?

d.

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kppot
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby kppot » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:50 pm

the battery


Yes, I think the battery is the root of such glitches (?)
7008DA37-CF3B-478A-A8F3-84AE2DDAC16F.JPG

Mine was replaced, so it looks like AA size rechargeable one, so please have no worries. I will leave the machine for half of the night to let the battery charge, meanwhile I will play with BBC Basic.
So i DO hope everything will be fine.
*status is still same at the moment
So many thanks for all who gave me a helpful hand! I will pop up again with next question about CF card right after I will get the mice :)

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kppot
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby kppot » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:06 pm

danielj wrote:What does a *cat say now it's stopped moaning about filecore errors?

d.

Looks like it gives me an actual HD catalogue!
DDAFB652-8025-4C8C-91C4-82AEA2979719.JPG

So I hope it will last for quite some time now.
Bottomline - I blame battery, as I wasn't charged and CMOS was not w/r correctly

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DutchAcorn
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby DutchAcorn » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:07 pm

kppot wrote:Ok, I did hard reset (powered off) and then poweren on the machine and came to interesting result. No error at boot up, and IDEFS 4 icon has turned to HardDisk icon

Looks promising. What do you see if you enter a *cat or *. command after pressing F12?
Paul

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kppot
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby kppot » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:15 pm

DutchAcorn wrote:
kppot wrote: What do you see if you enter a *cat or *. command after pressing F12?

I believe I have an actual HD catalogue, I posted photo of my screen just above

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flaxcottage
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby flaxcottage » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:39 pm

Good work. =D>
- John

Currently running Level 4 Econet with BBC B, BBC B+ 128K, Master 128K, 4Mb A3000, 4Mb A3020, 4Mb A4000, 4Mb A5000 dual FDD; UK101; HP41CX setup; Psion 3a, 3mx and 5mx; Z88; TI-58c, TI-59 and printer, HP-16C programmer's calculator

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DutchAcorn
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby DutchAcorn » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:53 pm

DutchAcorn wrote:
kppot wrote:Ok, I did hard reset (powered off) and then poweren on the machine and came to interesting result. No error at boot up, and IDEFS 4 icon has turned to HardDisk icon

Looks promising. What do you see if you enter a *cat or *. command after pressing F12?

Yes, was cross-posted, glad you got it working!
Paul

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kppot
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby kppot » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:12 pm

Once again thanks to everyone for your support! :D

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jms2
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Re: A3000 lost Hard Disk, a noob's story

Postby jms2 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:04 am

=D>


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