Help needed with software problem

discussion of beeb/electron applications, languages, utils and educational s/w
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CMcDougall
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Postby CMcDougall » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:08 am

xfer51 prog on beeb should be

XFER FF1900 FF8023 0048A7 :wink:

if cable is working properly 8)
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stevebarra
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Postby stevebarra » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:40 pm

Back on the case

When I started up BBC this morning showed
ACORN MOS
ACORN ADFS
(red ligh on Cumana disk drive a floppy disk is in drive)
Then shows
Disc error 50 at :0/000002
*-
so re formatted disk

ctrl-D- Break
ACOM MOS
ACORN 1770 DFS
This is not a langauge
*
Break
ACORN MOS
ACORN1770 DFS
*ENABLE 0
*FORM 80 0
Formatting drive 0 track 4F (finishes on drive 0 track 4F)
Just out of interest I am using Fujifilm 2HD IBM Formatted disks are these ok?

xfer problem
Tried Hyperterminal and BBC could communicate both ways
I am using xfer4
xfer.ini file placed in windows\system folder just alterded speed to 9600(have tried slower speeds always seems same result.
ran xfer -1 from DOS window program seen on BBC transfering
>SAVE "xfer"
>PAGE=&1900 (C mCDOUGALL LINE)
>CHAIN "XFER"
>*INFO "XFER"
$, XFER FF0E00 FF802B 0021FD 002 (same result file too small)
I have two transfer leads that I have tried both show same transfer problem


Battery problem
Will e-mail photo of original to beardo this afternoon
Looking at RS catalogue for nickel-cadmium rechargeable battery what voltage?
Seems like book 2 page 14-16 or does anyone have a better source?

Copying ROM cartridge with sorvad program
Should I wait until battery problem solved?

Steve

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CMcDougall
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Postby CMcDougall » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:05 pm

if getting 'This is not a langauge ' then its 'lost' the Basic rom, which will be maybe why xfer not working, due to it being written in basic :)

can't mind how to use a master when its lost its CMOS battery backed up ram that keeps setup/time. :? (plenty things on tha net, somewhere!)

if using 31/2" discs with the drive, i think u need SD discs, the ones with one hole for protection only. That may be problem too 8)
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sorvad
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Postby sorvad » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:07 pm

On the battery subject, I'm not sure of the voltage. I thought you may be able to measure the working one to find out ? Although the chips run off 5v I think they can be keep there contents at a lower voltage than that, the common voltage is 1.2v and as you said there seem to be three stacked in series I'm guessing the nominal voltage will be around 3.6v.

I've got the RS catalogue (book 2) open in front of me and nothing comes close to the measurements you gave. You said 5/16" diam and length which is basically 8mm. But looking at the dimens in catalogue I can find nothing near. Especially if you have to stack 3 together to get 3.6v. Part 476-2011 is about the nearest but still virtually double the size you need in both directions and a third the voltage. perhaps though it is 1.2v.

Measure the working one and see what you get.

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sorvad
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Postby sorvad » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:12 pm

If the Master on board battery is goosed for a temp measure do

*INSERT 12

Which will put the basic ROM back in then do a CTRL-BREAK. You should get BASIC back then but only until you switch off power.

There are instructions on the net and someone linked to them in these forums not that long ago so try a search on these forums

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CMcDougall
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Postby CMcDougall » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:18 pm

XFER Ver 5.1 22/01/05 (112Kb) @ http://www.g7jjf.com/progs/xfer51.zip

better using this SteveB, dont know why v4 still in essentials :? , maybe why the prog is smaller, and not 'up to scratch' :wink:
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sorvad
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Postby sorvad » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:21 pm

Back on batteries.

I started to think from your description that these sounded like button cells put together to make a stack of the correct voltage. So I've looked at rechargable button cells.

It appears NiCAD's are no longer manufactured in this form but there is a direct replacement.

Look on page 11 on book 2 in RS cat. The VHR series are NiMH and can replace NiCads. And number 3 range have tags on for soldering to circuit board. They are not exactly the size you want but are closer and come in a range of voltages. Once you know the voltage I think you may find something here to suit.

Oh and replying to your question, you could try copying the RAM as although when your write the new one it will dissapear when power removed at least you can do a soft reset and see if the program springs into life correctly. But no rush till battery problem sorted I suppose.
Last edited by sorvad on Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CMcDougall
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Postby CMcDougall » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:29 pm

a quick google gives
http://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/CompNyb ... onfig.html

not the page ive seen b4, but has the bits :D

ow & http://www.sprow.co.uk/bbc/howto.htm#m128battery

XFER51
If you have a BBC Master you should type *CONFIGURE DATA 5 at the BBC in order to set the number of data bits (8 ), the parity (none) and the
number of stop bits (1). (BBC B's are usually configured properly
already.)
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regregex
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Postby regregex » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:51 pm

Steve has sent pictures of the battery:

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Since you've got Hyperterminal to work it is possible to send and receive files as streams of text if you need to. However, do please try Colin's suggestion:

Code: Select all

*CONFIGURE DATA 5

then press Ctrl-Break and try XFER -1 (version 5.1) once more. I get:

Code: Select all

*INFO XFER
$.XFER         31900 38023  48A7  22

If your file is still short, show us the end of the LIST -ing so we can work out what's going wrong. Try copy&pasting the missing lines from XFER.BAS to a separate Notepad window, save as a text file; then in Hyperterminal, do Transfer -> Send Text File.

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CMcDougall
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Postby CMcDougall » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:14 am

:roll: , now we see! they batterys are in alot of 286, 386 & 486 PCs, so get one from there 8) or newer PC has the same volt, but a watch battery size.
This battery was also on my Watford board, for ram backup of slot E. I took it out so would not leak onto by beloved beeb PCB :wink:
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Postby stevebarra » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:42 pm

Latest update
Battery Problem
Looking through Maplin catalogue page 620 can see some that look like the old one.It says the H-Series mempac range of rechargeble Nickel Metal Hydride batteries, particularly suitable for backing up CMOS and NMOS memories, suitable for use as replacements for NiCd batteries in most applications, any good?

XFER problem
Have tried
*CONFIGURE DATA 5
and used xfer51 before same result on saving xfer to disk
just a thought should I be using 720 disks rather than 1.44?
If so where could I get some from?

sorvad program
Think we need to sort out the saving to disk drive first

Steve

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CMcDougall
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Postby CMcDougall » Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:06 pm

ME wrote:if using 31/2" discs with the drive, i think u need SD discs, the ones with one hole for protection only.

:roll: yeah, get some old 31/2" SD 720k discs first. :wink:
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stevebarra
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Postby stevebarra » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:36 pm

Found the original battery that we replaced marked up
VARTA
3/20DK
124

mean anything?
Also found this page is asuitable replacement on here?
http://www.cellpacksolutions.com/items. ... &offset=10

Also found a 3.5 135tpi 1MB (720K) DISK
but it is double sided and double density

Steve

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sorvad
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Postby sorvad » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:12 pm

The 3/v15/p seems very close to your dimensions. 1mm heigher and 3mm extra in diameter, not a bad match.

I'm guessing that as these are all 3.6v units and used for CMOS backup then the old one you had was also 3.6v. If you can make it fit I would go with this one. As NiMH can replace NiCD then I reckon this will be OK.

stevebarra
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Postby stevebarra » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:40 pm

Will order the battery
Still trying to get xfer to work
Have two serial leads tried both same result, have two master's have switched to the spare same result shown below.
>SAVE "XFER"
>CHAIN "XFER"
>no such FW/PROC at line 170
>LIST
120REM *********
130REM MAIN PROGRAM
140REM ***********
150
160REM Initialisation
170 PROCreset
180REM Clear serial port buffers
190 *fx 21,1
200 *fx 21,2
210 MORE 7
220 ON ERROR PROCfatal_error
230 PROCsetvars
240 PROCassemble
250 PROCinitconnection

I am using xfer51 on a windows 98 machine

Steve

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regregex
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Postby regregex » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:23 pm

Normally when Xfer has finished sending XFER.BAS it prints a message boxed in ***'s telling you to save. Are you getting this or is it just stopping at line 250?

25 lines, hmm... Perhaps the Master is hanging at the bottom of the page (scroll lock). Try typing CTRL+O before entering the *FX commands Xfer gives you.

I'd tell you to do *Configure Scroll, but that might be the setting already. No Master experience, sorry...

Wait! I know this doesn't explain how the transfer got to the halfway point (21FD vs. 48A7), but if scroll lock is on it will look like the program's seizing.

I would also consider re-typing all the *Configure values to the default settings in case the Master's internal CMOS battery is hosed; but if it's not we might wipe a setting that's used by the museum program. Sigh.

stevebarra
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Postby stevebarra » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:39 am

Have switched from the musuem master to a spare master to see if I could get xfer running.
I can see all the lines of code transfering over to the master on the master monitor and it does finish with
REM FILE TRANSFER COMPLETE
REM TYPE SAVE "XFER" TO SAVE FILE
REM THEN RUN TO START PROG
>* 2,0

I type
>SAVE "XFER"
floppy disc drive lights up and saves
>CHAIN "XFER"
starts to load program then stops at
>NO SUCH FN/PROC AT LINE 170
If I type in >*INFO I see
$, XFER FF0E00 FF802B 0021FD 002 (file to small)

It was me who stopped it at line 250 as the fault/program stops at line 170?
If I run >LIST it runs through all the lines of code to line 3752ENDPROC

Hope this explains the situation a little better

Steve

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Postby g7jjf » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:19 am

The program should go up to line 8964 so the transfer isn't working properly. I am still convinced the serial cable isn't wired correctly for the handshaking lines so can you please double check your wiring against the instructions in the sercable.txt file.

stevebarra
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Postby stevebarra » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:27 pm

Have checked both cables with a meter look ok
when the pc does the transfer to the BBC the last line on both the pc and BBC to be transfered is line 8964
rather than saving I ran list on the BBC straight after the file transfer from the PC and this only showed to line 3752ENDPROC which is the same result as running SAVE,CHAIN and LIST.
Does this make sence?

Steve

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Postby g7jjf » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:36 pm

Does the computer boot up in Mode 7 or some other high res screen mode ?

It is defaults to Mode 0 for example, there won't be enough memory to store the program which might explain why you are missing half of it.

Try *CONFIGURE MODE 7, Ctrl-Break and do the transfer again.

If your battery has gone, it has probably reset the default screen mode to 0.

stevebarra
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Postby stevebarra » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:35 pm

Eureka!
you have sussed it out
when I put in
*CONFIGURE MODE 7, Ctrl-Break
the screen image got bigger I also noticed on the PC it said after the transfer 943 lines written.
Saved it to disk ran chain "xfer" program ran up and the waiting for connection screen is showing.

What does *CONFIGURE MODE 7 do that allowed the full file to transfer?

Should I proceed and try and lift the details of the ROM cartridge with the program sorvad has written?

Steve

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Postby g7jjf » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:47 pm

The Master has several screen modes, each of which offers different screen resolutions. The higher resolution modes, such as Mode 0, uses a lot of memory to store the graphics and so there is less memory for program space. Graphics and programs share the same memory (not quite true but we are talking in simple terms here). Mode 7 is a text only mode so uses least screen memory and therefore gives you more space for your program. The *CONFIGURE MODE 7 line tells the computer to default to Mode 7 on reset.

Now that you have XFER running, you can go ahead and try and transfer the cartridge memory.

I would also do a *CONFIGURE DATA 4 before starting to ensure the serial data format is what XFER expects.

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Postby stevebarra » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:21 pm

Moving swiftly on!
I have managed to transfer the program "grabrom" over from the pc to the BBC which was saved on to disk.
Ran the program with the duff cartridge in but did not show (not expecting RAM in there?)
So will try and use solvad program
On the PC if I save the solvad's code from notepad what extension will I save it with, then can I transfer it with xfer and then be able to run it as CHAIN (SAVED FILE NAME)

Steve

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Postby g7jjf » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:30 pm

To transfer solvad's program, type it into notepad and save it using a suitable name.

Transfer this program to the Master with xfer.

Then, Ctrl-Break to reset machine

*EXEC filename to convert from ASCII to tokenised Basic.

SAVE "new filename"

CHAIN "new filename"

Or, you could just type it straight into the Master instead, then SAVE "file" and CHAIN "file"

stevebarra
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Postby stevebarra » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:10 pm

Have saved sorvad code from notepad called sorvad.txt
tried xfer nodice removed the .txt extension nothing doing tried the grabrom file transfered across ok?

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Postby g7jjf » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:29 pm

XFER is looking for an .INF file.

Rename the text file as just sorvad.

On your PC, in the same directory as sorvad, create a file in notepad called sorvad.inf.

Type :

$.sorvad FF1900 FF8023 xxxxxx

You will need to replace xxxxxx with the hex representation of the file size of sorvad. Doing a DIR from a command prompt will give you the size in decimal. Use the Windows calculator to convert to hex.

Save this file as sorvad.inf.

XFER should then be able to transfer sorvad.

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Postby stevebarra » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:41 pm

cannot seem to get sorvad across (rain stops play!) leaving work but will take masters with me might get chance to proceed otherwise back on wednesday morning.
I got sorved file to 715 which converted to Hex is 2CB BUT DO NOT THINK THAT IS RIGHT?

Thanks for all youre help g7jjf

Making slow progress

Steve

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Postby g7jjf » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:50 pm

2CB looks correct.

If you download :

http://www.g7jjf.com/sorvad.zip

this contains the two files required.

Jon.

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regregex
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Postby regregex » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:49 pm

stevebarra wrote:Eureka!
you have sussed it out
when I put in
*CONFIGURE MODE 7, Ctrl-Break
the screen image got bigger I also noticed on the PC it said after the transfer 943 lines written.
Saved it to disk ran chain "xfer" program ran up and the waiting for connection screen is showing.

#-o ](*,)
I am in the presence of greater minds. Think I'll just lurk for now! Best of luck Steve.

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Postby stevebarra » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:30 pm

Back to it!
Transfered "sorvad" to BBC (thanks to g7jjf winzip file)
*ctrl-break
*BASIC
>*EXEC "SORVAD"
>SAVE "SORVAD1"
>CHAIN "SORVAD1"
ran through program then screen ended white?with the cursur just visable behind.
CTRL-BREAK (to get out of that)
*CAT 0
(15) FM
Drive 0 Option 0 (off)
Dir :0 .$ Lib :0 .$
GRABROM SlotB
sorvad SORVAD1
XFER
*BASIC
>*INFO "SlotB"
$: SlotB 004000 004000 004000 064

Did try and xfer back to pc but having seem to be having trouble transfering anything of the disk drive.
Might be a silly question but now I have xfer partly working would it be possible to lift the program from the ROM using grabrom transfer it back to the PC run it on Beebem using the dataalso transfered on the file SlotB?

Or is there anything to look at SlotB?

Steve