Setting up PANOS!

discussion of beeb/electron applications, languages, utils and educational s/w
User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:54 pm

danielj wrote:Run PANOS. Clearly.

d.


Excellent idea! How?

I have seen disc images etc. on the web but have no idea where to start. Or even if they are ssd images etc.!

Any start points welcome! Or a pointer in the correct direction...

Lardo
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5337
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby danielj » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:03 pm

Disk images:
http://mdfs.net/Mirror/Archive/Acorn/PanOS/Version140/

You can either run from floppy (ergh) or an ADFS installation (yey!) or even an econet installation (double yey!)

Good background here:
http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org.uk/Panos.html

Manuals here:
http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org ... i/Sci.html

Adventure here:
viewtopic.php?t=10785

It's a Fortran/Pascal programmer's paradise!

d.

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:17 pm

danielj wrote:Disk images:
http://mdfs.net/Mirror/Archive/Acorn/PanOS/Version140/

You can either run from floppy (ergh) or an ADFS installation (yey!) or even an econet installation (double yey!)

Good background here:
http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org.uk/Panos.html

Manuals here:
http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org ... i/Sci.html

Adventure here:
viewtopic.php?t=10785

It's a Fortran/Pascal programmer's paradise!

d.


Thanks!

I had found the images but not the other stuff.
I will have to run from a DFS floppy as I lack any other option currently. Any idea if the images on MDFS will save to an mmc to allow transfer to floppy from t'internet?

Lardo
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5337
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby danielj » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:26 pm

You need them on double sided floppies. UPURS is your friend! If you've got an MMC solution, use the ADFS/MMC one and you should be able to install it to a hard disk image?

This thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10519&start=270
d.

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:15 pm

danielj wrote:You need them on double sided floppies. UPURS is your friend! If you've got an MMC solution, use the ADFS/MMC one and you should be able to install it to a hard disk image?

This thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10519&start=270
d.


I have tried the mmc version of disc 1 on BeebEm and it crashes out with data fetch errors as below.

image.jpeg


I split the files out using the file manipulation stuff that came with my TurboMMC card and put them into an SD MMB file and tried that directly on my Beeb and it just hangs.
I copied the files onto a floppy and it also just hangs as below. As far as I can tell the files are as per the original. Certainly *info does not report any differences.

It never moves from the screen show: -

image.jpeg


Having read the set up guide it seems you basically insert disc 1, type disc and then panos and set the date to get started 'installing' it.
I have a model B, issue 4 with an Opus Challenger 3, Watford 13 RAM/ ROM board.

Have I committed any school boy errors or missed anything obvious?

Any help greatly appreciated!

Lardo
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

RobC
Posts: 1818
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:41 pm

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby RobC » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:53 pm

Looks like you are using the wrong 2nd processor!

PANOS runs on the 32016 not the ARM so, assuming you're using the matchbox co-pro, you need to change the DIP switch settings. There's a thread somewhere that has the current list of supported co-pros and the corresponding dip-switch settings.

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:00 pm

RobC wrote:Looks like you are using the wrong 2nd processor!

PANOS runs on the 32016 not the ARM so, assuming you're using the matchbox co-pro, you need to change the DIP switch settings. There's a thread somewhere that has the current list of supported co-pros and the corresponding dip-switch settings.


That would be the school boy error then... :oops:
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

RobC
Posts: 1818
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:41 pm

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby RobC » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:24 pm

Not to worry - we've all made them :D

Have fun with Panos - I have a CF image containing an install if that would help you.

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:28 pm

RobC wrote:Not to worry - we've all made them :D

Have fun with Panos - I have a CF image containing an install if that would help you.


Hi Rob!

In my defence... Nope not got one.

The CF image would be great thanks!

Lardo
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

RobC
Posts: 1818
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:41 pm

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby RobC » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:53 pm

PM me and we can discuss,

Best wishes,

Rob

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5337
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby danielj » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:48 pm

*FX151,230,13 should do the job...

d.

User avatar
jgharston
Posts: 2756
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:22 am
Location: Whitby/Sheffield

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby jgharston » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:35 pm

I installed three versions of PanOS on my system, then zipped up the full installation here

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5337
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby danielj » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:37 pm

I'm Daniel xxxx and I claim my free badge! :D

d.

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:05 am

jgharston wrote:I installed three versions of PanOS on my system, then zipped up the full installation here



Would I be correct in assuming that this is a HDD install? I'm slumming it with no HDD at the mo but am hoping to get a datacentre soon as I believe more are being made.

Thanks

L
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
sydney
Posts: 1985
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:09 am
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby sydney » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:05 am

Lardo Boffin wrote:
jgharston wrote:I installed three versions of PanOS on my system, then zipped up the full installation here



Would I be correct in assuming that this is a HDD install? I'm slumming it with no HDD at the mo but am hoping to get a datacentre soon as I believe more are being made.

Thanks

L

Do you have an mmc card connected to you user port? If so the new version of adfs supports a hard disk on mmc and works with mmfs so you can have a 512 mb adfs hard disk and 511 ssd's all on one mmc/sd card.
If you don't have one you can make one for a couple of pounds.

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:40 pm

sydney wrote:
Lardo Boffin wrote:
jgharston wrote:I installed three versions of PanOS on my system, then zipped up the full installation here



Would I be correct in assuming that this is a HDD install? I'm slumming it with no HDD at the mo but am hoping to get a datacentre soon as I believe more are being made.

Thanks

L

Do you have an mmc card connected to you user port? If so the new version of adfs supports a hard disk on mmc and works with mmfs so you can have a 512 mb adfs hard disk and 511 ssd's all on one mmc/sd card.
If you don't have one you can make one for a couple of pounds.


I have a TurboMMC attached. I did start looking at the mmc hdd image thread that Daniel pointed out but got a bit lost after a few pages! Bit too much to read on an iPhone and a bit technical!
So presumably I just need to download a copy of the rom in the last page of the thread, plonk it into sideways RAM and then run ADFS? I will also need to get a 512mb card to go with it! I think mine are both 100mb.

Any idea of what the knock on effects are of adding ADFS to a model B with MMC-DFS, DNFS for the co-proc and OpusDDOS for my Challenger 3?
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:44 pm

Correction, I guess I will need a 1gig card given the 512 for the hard drive and 500 or so ssds.
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
sydney
Posts: 1985
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:09 am
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby sydney » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:50 pm

Lardo Boffin wrote:Correction, I guess I will need a 1gig card given the 512 for the hard drive and 500 or so ssds.

I think you'll need a 2gig card as the adfs hard disk needs 1gig of space as it needs double the space. There is a sdcard image posted in the thread with panos,dos + gem, a fat partition holding 511 ssds and probably other stuff on it.

User avatar
sydney
Posts: 1985
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:09 am
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby sydney » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:55 pm

Lardo Boffin wrote:Any idea of what the knock on effects are of adding ADFS to a model B with MMC-DFS, DNFS for the co-proc and OpusDDOS for my Challenger 3?

I think you can lose dnfs as the copro stuff is in ADFS and probably the MMC-DFS if it's based on the original MMBEEB rom. MMC-DFS I'd replace with MMFS and OpusDDOS should be ok if it's had no problems with your current mmc rom.
Hmm, is the new ADFS beeb compatible as it's based (I think) on the Master ADFS? I'd check myself but have to collect the kids from school!

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6605
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby hoglet » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:05 pm

Unfortunately, the SD version of ADFS will only work on the Master 128, as it's based on ADFS 1.53.

There isn't currently a solution for the Model B, and I'm not actively working on one. I use a Data Centre in that machine, with ADFS 1.33 and a IDE/CF Card adapter.

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:24 pm

hoglet wrote:Unfortunately, the SD version of ADFS will only work on the Master 128, as it's based on ADFS 1.53.

There isn't currently a solution for the Model B, and I'm not actively working on one. I use a Data Centre in that machine, with ADFS 1.33 and a IDE/CF Card adapter.


I am hoping to get a data centre soon as I believe some more are being made so at that point I will revisit all of this. It's not like I have nothing to do in the meantime...

Thanks all!
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:38 pm

I did just try the panos disc 1 run from my mmc and floppy using the 32000 co-proc (fx ... 13) and it still hung shortly after typing panos.

Is there anything I can try in the short term to see if it is working? I will post a copy of the ssds I am running it from if someone else can see if they are ok?

The 6502 and Z80 settings both seem fine so I think the co-proc is OK although sometime when I switch it on I have to switch it off and reseat it for it to be recognised.
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5337
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby danielj » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:53 pm

You're loading side one of the floppy into drive 0 and side two into drive 2? If they're the ones from Jonathan's site, they're the ones I used, so they should be fine. You do need both sides though. - and is your MMC selected with *DISC or *CARD? Pretty sure it'll need to be *DISC.

d.

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:12 pm

danielj wrote:You're loading side one of the floppy into drive 0 and side two into drive 2? If they're the ones from Jonathan's site, they're the ones I used, so they should be fine. You do need both sides though. - and is your MMC selected with *DISC or *CARD? Pretty sure it'll need to be *DISC.

d.


The mmc is selected using *card. I copied side one (one ssd image) to the first side of the floppy and side two (second ssd) to side two of the floppy. Although thinking about it I suspect I forgot to *din the second image to drive 2 when I tried it from the mmc. Will give that another go tomorrow!
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6605
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby hoglet » Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:34 pm

Lardo Boffin wrote:I did just try the panos disc 1 run from my mmc and floppy using the 32000 co-proc (fx ... 13) and it still hung shortly after typing panos.

What filesystem ROM (and version) are you using with the SD Card?

Dave

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:29 pm

hoglet wrote:
Lardo Boffin wrote:I did just try the panos disc 1 run from my mmc and floppy using the 32000 co-proc (fx ... 13) and it still hung shortly after typing panos.

What filesystem ROM (and version) are you using with the SD Card?

Dave


It's the TurboMMC updated for the recent fixes for the Z80 co processor on the matchbox coprocessor as provided by Steve Picton. I'm not near my Beeb at the moment but when I am I will get the version number.

Lardo
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
Lardo Boffin
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:47 am

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby Lardo Boffin » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:27 am

I have DNFS 1.2, DFS 0.A2 for the MMC and Opus Challenger 1.03 installed.

I disabled MMC and left DNFS and it failed. I disabled DNFS and left MMC and it failed. If I disable both then I don't get the co-proc showing at all suggesting that the challenger doesn't have tube code.

Lardo
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Retroclinic Datacentre + HDD, matchbox co-proc, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, acorn cassette
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc, Acorn 6502 coproc

User avatar
DutchAcorn
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:56 am
Location: Maarn, Netherlands

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby DutchAcorn » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:49 pm

I am trying to replicate this but am having a hard time using the SSD image files. They are sequential double sided images which none of the tools I have seem to be able to handle. If read by BeebEm side 0 shows up on disc 0 as well as disc 2. When converted to interleaved format (using the SSDtoDSD tool here) the information on side 2 is lost (shows as an empty disc).

Am I missing something obvious? #-o
Paul

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5337
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby danielj » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:18 pm

DFSExplorer should be able to jiggle them to interleaved?

d.

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6605
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Setting up PANOS!

Postby hoglet » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:23 pm

Here's a set of PANOS 1.4 install disks in single sided format:
Pan14Disks.zip
(980.27 KiB) Downloaded 43 times

I used dd on Linux to split them:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash
for i in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
do
unzip PanOS14-${i}.zip
dd if=PanOS14-${i}.ssd of=Pan14${i}a.ssd bs=204800 count=1
dd if=PanOS14-${i}.ssd of=Pan14${i}b.ssd bs=204800 count=1 skip=1
done


Dave


Return to “software: other”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests