Converting tape to disc

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pau1ie
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Converting tape to disc

Postby pau1ie » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:45 pm

I have a disc image which has obviously got a load of files on it copied off a tape. They run each other, so I can't just do *tape to get more memory.

How do you get around this situation? Does the program have to be trimmed, or is there a clever way to get more memory?
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lurkio
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Re: Converting tape to disc

Postby lurkio » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:16 pm

It'll vary from case to case, but if there's enough room in memory with PAGE at &1100 to stitch all the files together contiguously into one big uber-file that can fit into the available RAM above &1100, then there might still be a bit of space left over to tack on a machine-code program that does a *TAPE and then redistributes the files in memory. You'd still have to tweak each individual program to call the next one rather than CHAIN it or *RUN it, though.

Hard to be more specific without knowing the details of the disc image.

:?:

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daveejhitchins
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Re: Converting tape to disc

Postby daveejhitchins » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:29 am

pau1ie wrote:How do you get around this situation? Does the program have to be trimmed, or is there a clever way to get more memory?
duikkie's your man for this job 8)

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duikkie
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Re: Converting tape to disc

Postby duikkie » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:37 am

Oke someone is saying i am clever :)

Upload the hole disc image in ssd format

and i will look at it.

but maybe we have solved it already


daveejhitchins wrote:
pau1ie wrote:How do you get around this situation? Does the program have to be trimmed, or is there a clever way to get more memory?
duikkie's your man for this job 8)

Dave H :D

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leenew
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Re: Converting tape to disc

Postby leenew » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:14 am

Hi Paul,
As Lurkio says, it is hard to say what to do without knowing the specific tape you are trying to transfer.
Tape-to-discing is an art in itself. It is the area that provided a lot of fun for many forum members back when they were young :D

I always refer people to these articles http://www.8bs.com/artt2d.htm as they give a good overview of problems you may encounter.

Thanks,

Lee.

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pau1ie
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Re: Converting tape to disc

Postby pau1ie » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:15 pm

It is "Six French Games" by AVP, part of the educational archive. I have made a start on the attached, I had to guess which order the programs are run, as they have just been ripped to disc, so still have chain "". The problem I am trying to deal with now is the first game, which is in Basic, but I suspect needs to call the next game.

This is in preparation for the game to be in the educational archive, so it needs to run in jsbeeb. An obvious solution is to run it in Master mode, and make sure the French accented characters work. Another solution would be to move the data lines to a file then read that in. The various intro files I just removed a few lines from (i.e. instructions to stop/start tape etc) and that freed up enough memory.

I'll post both the original and the one I have messed with.

I notice Lee mentions it here - don't know if you still have the cassette, as one of the games is missing, and a UEF would be useful to know what order the programs ran in. How much do you think we should stick to the original experience? I do feel bad removing the "Stop tape" commands, but it occurs to me on a disc rather than running each game one after the other it would be nice to have a menu so you can pick which one you want.
Attachments
SFG.zip
Six French Games
(314.62 KiB) Downloaded 11 times
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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davidb
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Re: Converting tape to disc

Postby davidb » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:05 pm

I looked at the COM127.SSD file (is that the original?) and it looks like the order is this:

Code: Select all

COM127
SFG
INTRO
GAME1
GAME2
GAME3
GAME4
GAME5
GAME6

That's only from a very quick play with a UEF I made from the SSD file and ran in Elkulator. Note that the double height text and function keys also work correctly on the Electron, so no MODE 7 trickery with this title! 8)

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Re: Converting tape to disc

Postby duikkie » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:00 pm

it is what you want, and i hope not all here make it's own version :) , i can easy make all files run from the beginning. they are simple basic programs so far i can see,

the basic think is to run the games at &1100 so far i can see
rename all the ch."" : change the *key10 and so on
if you want a menu so you can jump to a game : allso easy

so what do we want , who has the onner to do this, it is for me not a chalange , but if someone else can fix this they can, if i do it ( i have nothing to do this evening) then i will fix it ( with menu ?)

pau1ie wrote:It is "Six French Games" by AVP, part of the educational archive. I have made a start on the attached, I had to guess which order the programs are run, as they have just been ripped to disc, so still have chain "". The problem I am trying to deal with now is the first game, which is in Basic, but I suspect needs to call the next game.

This is in preparation for the game to be in the educational archive, so it needs to run in jsbeeb. An obvious solution is to run it in Master mode, and make sure the French accented characters work. Another solution would be to move the data lines to a file then read that in. The various intro files I just removed a few lines from (i.e. instructions to stop/start tape etc) and that freed up enough memory.

I'll post both the original and the one I have messed with.

I notice Lee mentions it here - don't know if you still have the cassette, as one of the games is missing, and a UEF would be useful to know what order the programs ran in. How much do you think we should stick to the original experience? I do feel bad removing the "Stop tape" commands, but it occurs to me on a disc rather than running each game one after the other it would be nice to have a menu so you can pick which one you want.

duikkie
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Re: Converting tape to disc

Postby duikkie » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:56 pm

it is a start :)

game3 missing ?

chain file with com127 ?
Attachments
fixsfg.zip
(18.01 KiB) Downloaded 9 times

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pau1ie
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Re: Converting tape to disc

Postby pau1ie » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:52 pm

duikkie wrote:game3 missing ?


Yes. Lee - do you still have the original?

leenew wrote:I always refer people to these articles

Interesting. As dukkie says, I dont think these are that complicated.

Thanks, that looks good.

Sorry if I am being thick, but why can you change page? So the default with tape is &E00, and with Disc is &1900, but you can just change it to &1100 with no trouble?

Anyway, thanks for your help!
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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leenew
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Re: Converting tape to disc

Postby leenew » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:15 pm

Hi Paul,
I may be mistaken but I believe I gave them to John Flaxcottage...

Lee.

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lurkio
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Re: Converting tape to disc

Postby lurkio » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:25 pm

pau1ie wrote:Sorry if I am being thick, but why can you change page? So the default with tape is &E00, and with Disc is &1900, but you can just change it to &1100 with no trouble?

You'll run into trouble if you set PAGE to &1100 and then CHAIN a BASIC program which opens one or more files (with OPENIN or OPENOUT) because DFS uses RAM from &1100 to &16FF as workspace for keeping track of open files and for file buffers, so part of your program will be overwritten in memory by DFS! See here for details:


But if the BASIC program doesn't open any files at all, then you can lower PAGE from &1900 to &1100.

From the Advanced Disk User Guide by Colin Pharo:

Colin Pharo wrote:Assuming that we do not switch filing systems (to TAPE, say) and no other ROM has requirements for absolute or private workspace, the normal default value for PAGE will be &1900. If however, we know in advance that we shall not switch filing systems or invoke any ROMs that will demand the absolute workspace (shared by all paged ROMs) from &0E00, then we also know that memory areas above &16FF will not be required by the DFS and we can reset PAGE to &1700. This will still allow us to open five files simultaneously. We may also know in advance that we do not require five simultaneously open files. For four open files, we can set PAGE to &1600. For three open files, we can set PAGE to &1500. For two open files we can set PAGE to &1400. For just one file, we can set PAGE to &1300. We cannot sensibly reduce PAGE below this value.

(But who wants to live "sensibly"? :wink: )

:idea:


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