Format floppy with MMC

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Bat
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Format floppy with MMC

Postby Bat » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:56 am

Hi,
Really proud of myself for figuring out swr and the rest of it to get a welcome disc on to floppy.
Format command doesn't work if the MMC ROM is still fitted. Instructions say to type in ?(2A1+ROM number)=0 or something like that.
My question is should the ROM number be in hex or decimal?
I tried decimal and then pulled the ROM out as it was getting late.
Going to try and knock up a program to do all the commands in one go as I'll probably forget most of it before I come to do this again!
Cheers
Gavin :)

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marcusjambler
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby marcusjambler » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:14 am

Does CTRL + D + BREAK work?

Bat
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby Bat » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:58 pm

Hi
Marcus, I don't think so. Can't remember if I tried that? It goes through the format with the hex numbers on screen in about a second but the FDD does nothing.
The instructions say it won't work without that command but I couldn't get the command to disable the MMC ROM...
Cheers :)

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DutchAcorn
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby DutchAcorn » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:12 pm

Bat wrote:Hi
Marcus, I don't think so. Can't remember if I tried that? It goes through the format with the hex numbers on screen in about a second but the FDD does nothing.
The instructions say it won't work without that command but I couldn't get the command to disable the MMC ROM...
Cheers :)

You should not need to disable the MMC ROM. Selecting the DFS ROM should be sufficient, which is what CTRL-D-BREAK does.

You can also simply try a *DISC command to select DFS. And *CARD to go back to MMC.
Paul

Bat
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby Bat » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:10 pm

DutchAcorn wrote:
Bat wrote:Hi
Marcus, I don't think so. Can't remember if I tried that? It goes through the format with the hex numbers on screen in about a second but the FDD does nothing.
The instructions say it won't work without that command but I couldn't get the command to disable the MMC ROM...
Cheers :)

You should not need to disable the MMC ROM. Selecting the DFS ROM should be sufficient, which is what CTRL-D-BREAK does.

You can also simply try a *DISC command to select DFS. And *CARD to go back to MMC.


Hi,
Using the *disc doesn't work for format.
Even with Acorn DFS on the top of the screen it's still a fail...
It's that command or ROM out from what I've read and tried.
If anyone has found a way to do it, please let me know, I'll try things over the weekend...
Cheers :)

duikkie
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby duikkie » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:03 pm

keep it simple :) ,
first what SWR sideway ram / board are use using ?

second DUMP the MMC rom !!!!

if you use a sideway ram which is using the userport for selection you must use SMART-SPI and use the pb's line other then 1 and 2. desolder and solder 5,6 ? this works only with SMART-SPI :)

the other new software for SD card , something with MM ( i still can't rember the rest :twisted: ) can not handle other pb lines

last what dfs are use using ?

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richardtoohey
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby richardtoohey » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:29 pm

Bat wrote:Format command doesn't work if the MMC ROM is still fitted.
What format command? What doesn't work? What do you see?

Depending on the DFS you have, there may not be a built-in FORMAT command - you have to load a program to do that.

So if you type *DISC and then *FORMAT you might end up like this:

Code: Select all

>*DISC
>*FORM

Disk fault 1E at 00/00
>*FORM40

Disk fault 1E at 00/00
>*FORMAT

Disk fault 1E at 00/00
>*H.

DFS 1.20
  DFS
  UTILS

EXMON II 2.01
MOVIE MAKER A 1.0
MOVIE MAKER B 1.1

OS 1.20

Bat
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby Bat » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:53 pm

richardtoohey wrote:
Bat wrote:Format command doesn't work if the MMC ROM is still fitted.
What format command? What doesn't work? What do you see?

Depending on the DFS you have, there may not be a built-in FORMAT command - you have to load a program to do that.

So if you type *DISC and then *FORMAT you might end up like this:

Code: Select all

>*DISC
>*FORM

Disk fault 1E at 00/00
>*FORM40

Disk fault 1E at 00/00
>*FORMAT

Disk fault 1E at 00/00
>*H.

DFS 1.20
  DFS
  UTILS

EXMON II 2.01
MOVIE MAKER A 1.0
MOVIE MAKER B 1.1

OS 1.20


Hi Richard,
I end up with no error code. It thinks it's formatted the floppy!
I load *FORM80 from a copy of the welcome disc.
Acorn DFS 1.20
MMC DFS 0.A3
Command in the instructions on page 18 is
?(&2A1+<ROM socket no>)=0
Socket number is in decimal, it doesn't like letters in there.

IMG_20180324_202406[1].jpg


That's what I get, takes about 1 second to complete!
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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CMcDougall
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby CMcDougall » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:45 pm

looks like you have that LOLPRICE £30 stupid rom installed, MMC DFS 0.A3

so take it out completely, load your Formatter prog from floppy disc, put in blank, run

sorted 8)

(or try with overpriced 33p thing unplugged from User port) :-k
ImageImageImage

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richardtoohey
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby richardtoohey » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:30 am

Bat wrote:Command in the instructions on page 18 is
?(&2A1+<ROM socket no>)=0
So is this the "Using MMC.pdf" document?

Section "Problems with Format and Verify ..." and it says "... temporarily fool the machine into believing the socket with the MMC is empty".

Making sure we are talking about the same thing here. :D

Because you are using a BBC B, you are not sure which socket MMC is in, correct?

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richardtoohey
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby richardtoohey » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:07 am

Was going to put some code up to show the ROM names ... but by the time I type that in, you copy it (somehow) to the machine ... there are easier ways.

I'm taking this from a book, so it might be wrong!

So looking at the ROMs, with IC51, MOS at the left-hand side, there are

IC52 - ROM 12
IC88 - ROM 13
IC100 - ROM 14
IC101 - ROM 15 (highest priority, so usually BASIC)

So might be easiest to eyeball the ROMs as in your machine.

I think your choices are down to:

?(&2A1+12)=0 or
?(&2A1+13)=0 or
?(&2A1+14)=0

Going to try them on my MMC Beeb now (not quite the same set-up, earlier ROM + a better DFS etc.)

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richardtoohey
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby richardtoohey » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:20 am

Here it is working on a real BBC B. This machine has got *ROMS available so I can also see it working.
mmc.png
After that command, *CARD fails, etc. as though the ROM had physically been removed.

So I think for your machine - try 12, 13, and 14, and see what gets knocked out of *HELP each time, or what seems to stop working, then try from scratch, this time with the ROM number you know to be the right one.

Also make sure you are using &2A1 - in your first message you didn't have an ampersand (assuming a typo because you would have got an error message like Missing ( if you had tried it.)

Think we might still have a bit of work after this, but one step at a time. :D

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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby Bat » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:04 am

Hi,
Thanks Richard, will have a look at that tonight. :D
Pretty sure my basic is far left but one, so shall I move that?
I typed the command from memory the first time as I was in wetherspoons having a bacon roll...
How do you get *ROMS I don't think mine has that?
Would certainly have made things like this and the DIY SWR a lot easier for me!
Cheers :)

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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby Bat » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:14 am

CMcDougall wrote:looks like you have that LOLPRICE £30 stupid rom installed, MMC DFS 0.A3

so take it out completely, load your Formatter prog from floppy disc, put in blank, run

sorted 8)

(or try with overpriced 33p thing unplugged from User port) :-k


I did curse that I'd not found/looked for this forum before I paid £25 too much for my LOLPRICE contraption :oops: #-o :x

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DutchAcorn
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby DutchAcorn » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:02 pm

Bat wrote:Hi Richard,
I end up with no error code. It thinks it's formatted the floppy!
I load *FORM80 from a copy of the welcome disc.
Acorn DFS 1.20
MMC DFS 0.A3
Command in the instructions on page 18 is
?(&2A1+<ROM socket no>)=0
Socket number is in decimal, it doesn't like letters in there.

IMG_20180324_202406[1].jpg

That's what I get, takes about 1 second to complete!
Cheers,
Gavin :)

This does not add up :?

Am I correct in that you are doing the following:
    Initialise DFS with CTRL-D-BREAK
    Insert Welcome Disc in floppy disc drive
    Give the *FORM80 command [loads from disc]
    Insert an empty floppy disc in the drive
    Press Y to start formatting

The fact that you can load the FORM80 program from the Welcome disc suggests that DFS is working. If it then formats a virtual floppy on the MMC instead of the one in the drive something odd is going on (perhaps related to the sideways ram installation?).

So, to verify, when you enter the FORM80 command, do you see and hear the program loading from the disc drive?
Paul

duikkie
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby duikkie » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:02 pm

no no no
the format program on the welcome disc , don't check for real discdrive :( ?
i did have ones have the same problem.

it formats the mmc disc it think din0 or so

use an other format like in roms ( which dfs ? ) maybe discdup program ?

simple pull out the mmc rom ( why do they sell it anywhy in 2018 ?)

format all your real disc which a dfs program like format from welcome disc

put in your not handy bought mmc rom .

loook for people that can blow a eprom or use a eeprom with SMART-SPI
or the other one the smarty one called MM... (red or yellow ??)



DutchAcorn wrote:
Bat wrote:Hi Richard,
I end up with no error code. It thinks it's formatted the floppy!
I load *FORM80 from a copy of the welcome disc.
Acorn DFS 1.20
MMC DFS 0.A3
Command in the instructions on page 18 is
?(&2A1+<ROM socket no>)=0
Socket number is in decimal, it doesn't like letters in there.

IMG_20180324_202406[1].jpg

That's what I get, takes about 1 second to complete!
Cheers,
Gavin :)

This does not add up :?

Am I correct in that you are doing the following:
    Initialise DFS with CTRL-D-BREAK
    Insert Welcome Disc in floppy disc drive
    Give the *FORM80 command [loads from disc]
    Insert an empty floppy disc in the drive
    Press Y to start formatting

The fact that you can load the FORM80 program from the Welcome disc suggests that DFS is working. If it then formats a virtual floppy on the MMC instead of the one in the drive something odd is going on (perhaps related to the sideways ram installation?).

So, to verify, when you enter the FORM80 command, do you see and hear the program loading from the disc drive?

Bat
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Re: Format floppy with MMC

Postby Bat » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:24 pm

Hi,
Right, I think I've cracked this one! :)
I've put Basic into the far right socket as mentioned by Richard and all is well !!!!???
I have no idea why this has sorted it, I can only presume it has something to do with the priority of the sockets? Basic was one from left when I bought the machine so didn't think about it, just used the remaining sockets.
It doesn't matter which sockets DFS or MMC roms go in now *FORM80 works as it should as long as the MMC rom is disabled.
I haven't tried the diy SWR yet...
Even the rom disabling command functions as it should :)
Thanks for the help and suggestions :D
Cheers,
Gavin :)