Educational Archive not in STH

discussion of beeb/electron applications, languages, utils and educational s/w
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flaxcottage
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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby flaxcottage » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:32 pm

Cheers, Col. I don't recognise the scans - we have them now.

That heap outside your back window must be pretty big by now. :lol:
- John

Currently running Level 4 Econet with BBC B, BBC B+ 128K, Master 128K, 4Mb A3000, 4Mb A3020, 4Mb A4000, 4Mb A5000 dual FDD; UK101; HP41CX setup; Psion 3a, 3mx and 5mx; Z88; TI-58c, TI-59 and printer, HP-16C programmer's calculator

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Pernod
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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby Pernod » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:58 am

Does the site http://www.kkeevel.nl/mybbcmaster/_other/education/education.html belong to anyone here? Plenty of educational titles with manuals!
- Nigel

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billcarr2005
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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby billcarr2005 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:46 pm

I believe it is Yrrah2's site, with contributions from Flaxcottage :)

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Pernod
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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby Pernod » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:04 pm

billcarr2005 wrote:I believe it is Yrrah2's site, with contributions from Flaxcottage :)

Ahh yes, if I'd read the whole thread I would've known that. Nice to see ADFS images specifically for the Compact.
- Nigel

BBC Model B, ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, etc.

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby OneSwitch » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:19 am

Have just received a batch of educational software that I don't think has been archived yet:

All The Year Round: Brilliant Computing
Everyday Signs: Brilliant Computing
Alan Nixon's Single Input Programs
MARDIS Gmes Disc
MARDIS Lilly & Frog
MARDIS Multiple Switch
MARDIS Number Work
MARDIS Single Switch
MARDIS Toy Control
CONCEPT KATE (double-sided disc)
CONCEPT KEN'S CARTOON / CARTOON AND CHALLENGE (double-sided disc)
NCET Software: CONCEPT
NCET Software: CONCEPT FILES (1989 - National Council for Educational Technology, Conventry)

Hoping to get it backed-up and shared soon. This stuff is still under copyright, but I've been given the okay to share for free, with a note saying that no one should try to make money out of these by re-creating them. Still really keen to find....

1. Arcade Challenge (Brilliant Computing)
2. Arcade Adventures (Brilliant Computing)
3. Break-time Games (Brilliant Computing)
4. Derek Harrison’s “Compact (BIMH) programs”

One day maybe!

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flaxcottage
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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby flaxcottage » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:36 am

Yep, all those are MIA. :D

There was such a huge number of educational titles produced BITD that it will take ages to preserve most of them.
- John

Currently running Level 4 Econet with BBC B, BBC B+ 128K, Master 128K, 4Mb A3000, 4Mb A3020, 4Mb A4000, 4Mb A5000 dual FDD; UK101; HP41CX setup; Psion 3a, 3mx and 5mx; Z88; TI-58c, TI-59 and printer, HP-16C programmer's calculator

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby OneSwitch » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:47 am

Yes, definitely, and I imagine many will just slowly rot away into oblivion. My side, I'm keen to preserve some of the early switch stuff before it vanishes, and I'm interested in the arcade games, as they may be the first (or amongst the first) commercial games adapted for improved access. Tons of stuff pre-dates it, but that was mostly given away / part of the elusive Blue-File database that SEMERCs ran and offered out to teachers, parents, etc.

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby AndyF » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:19 pm

I too have a selection of new disks to examine although some are games there is certainly some 'Edu software there for sure. Its a question of time of going through it (I've only really checked that the disks were readable so far) when I have a bit of time at the weekend... :)

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby flaxcottage » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:40 pm

Brill. Hope there is something MIA in there.
- John

Currently running Level 4 Econet with BBC B, BBC B+ 128K, Master 128K, 4Mb A3000, 4Mb A3020, 4Mb A4000, 4Mb A5000 dual FDD; UK101; HP41CX setup; Psion 3a, 3mx and 5mx; Z88; TI-58c, TI-59 and printer, HP-16C programmer's calculator

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby CMcDougall » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:19 pm

got them Barrie, all work apart from sideAs of 2 discs for the Sherston discs needing a little work, as have a bad sector @ track39 sector8 for protection....
Attachments
discs.jpg
mostly 40T apart from 2 flippys and 1 80T
ImageImageImage

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AndyF
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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby AndyF » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:05 am

Regarding the 'new' bits I need to archive, I'm told there's Grasshopper, and Find (with documentation!), and Key. Although I've not had chance yet to sort this.

One issue is the machine with the DataCentre in has died an unusual death (not DC related) so I'll have to transplant it elsewhere as that will be easier than fixing the machine (the 'to sort' this is on my list however, I do not think its too serious)

There are quite a few floppies (four or five boxes) to look through however.

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby flaxcottage » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:05 pm

CMcDougall wrote:got them Barrie, all work apart from sideAs of 2 discs for the Sherston discs needing a little work, as have a bad sector @ track39 sector8 for protection....


Sherston protection is quite easy to crack. The protection file is W1S. Copy all copyable files to a new blank disc in drive 1, leaving the original disc in drive 0. Use Exmon to change W1S (copy) on drive 1 so that *BASIC|M OLD|M RUN|M is changed to *BASIC|M OLD|M LI.|M and resave the file noting the load and execution addresses (usually it runs at &480 and is &300 long. I load at &1480 and *SAVE :1.W1S 1480+300 480 480). Also note down the file names at the end of the W1S code

Run W1S from drive 1 and it will load the hidden, protected BASIC program. Use *RUN :1.W1S <program name>. The code will not be visible (usually). Type *FX3 and press return and then CTRL-F; these will enable the VDU. Type LIST and press return and the code should list. It can then be saved on drive 1 using SAVE ":1.<program name>".

Now all that has to be done is go through each BASIC program on the copied disc searching for *W1S <program name>. Change this to CHAIN"<program name>" and re-save the program. Job done. Using a Master and LISTIF W1S makes the job much easier.

If they are still tricky send them to me and I'll crack them or billcarr2005 can FSD them.
- John

Currently running Level 4 Econet with BBC B, BBC B+ 128K, Master 128K, 4Mb A3000, 4Mb A3020, 4Mb A4000, 4Mb A5000 dual FDD; UK101; HP41CX setup; Psion 3a, 3mx and 5mx; Z88; TI-58c, TI-59 and printer, HP-16C programmer's calculator

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby CMcDougall » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:44 pm

^never used Exmon, no OLD,RUN can be seen in W1S file....
just have a look at the 2 discs in the Sherston thread, it's just one unformatted sector @ T39S8, so probably just checks to make sure sector is unreadable, then just carries on as normal, like others in the past. So just by-pass the 'read err is ok' code.
flaxcottage wrote:I don't recognise the scans - we have them now.

still not 100% sure what you mean here, do they still need them scanned?, or thrown out window :-
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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby OneSwitch » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:18 pm

Huge thanks to Colin for converting these assistive technology / Special Needs disks. I've attached them below. Me getting them came with the stipulation that no one ever charges any money for these. I don't think that's going to be a problem, but wanted to state this here.

Chuffed to bits to find that one of the elusive disks I've been looking for for ages was on the blank disk I sent over, in Brilliant Computing's Arcade Challenge. There's some really nice stuff in there.

Not giving up hope, this is my revised wish list for BBC special needs tech:

1. Arcade Adventures (Brilliant Computing 1988)
2. Break-time Games (Brilliant Computing)
3. Derek Harrison’s “Compact (BIMH) programs.
4. Micrex Toy Interface.
5. Original Nidd Slo-Mo for BBC.

Cheers all,

Barrie
OneSwitch.org.uk
Attachments
DiscsEduc-Barrie.rar
(472.75 KiB) Downloaded 35 times

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby flaxcottage » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:09 pm

CMcDougall wrote:^never used Exmon, no OLD,RUN can be seen in W1S file....
just have a look at the 2 discs in the Sherston thread, it's just one unformatted sector @ T39S8, so probably just checks to make sure sector is unreadable, then just carries on as normal, like others in the past. So just by-pass the 'read err is ok' code.
flaxcottage wrote:I don't recognise the scans - we have them now.

still not 100% sure what you mean here, do they still need them scanned?, or thrown out window :-


W1S does hold the string but it may be broken up using *FX138,0, ... That is one of the 'mods' that Sherston did to make it harder to crack. :lol:

Out of the window. :lol: We have the scans of that title in the archive.
- John

Currently running Level 4 Econet with BBC B, BBC B+ 128K, Master 128K, 4Mb A3000, 4Mb A3020, 4Mb A4000, 4Mb A5000 dual FDD; UK101; HP41CX setup; Psion 3a, 3mx and 5mx; Z88; TI-58c, TI-59 and printer, HP-16C programmer's calculator

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby flaxcottage » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:43 pm

An archived version of Concept Kids by Sherston Software.

This is another high quality 8-bit title from Sherston supplied as four 40T SSD images. The title needs a concept keyboard and WILL NOT RUN without one. It has been tested with a Concept A4-128 keyboard on a Master 128 using physical disks.

The software is in the first zip file.
Attachments
CK8.zip
(1.18 MiB) Downloaded 33 times
CK7.zip
(4.15 MiB) Downloaded 34 times
CK5.zip
(4.44 MiB) Downloaded 35 times
CK6.zip
(4.62 MiB) Downloaded 47 times
CK4.zip
(4.95 MiB) Downloaded 36 times
CK3.zip
(4.43 MiB) Downloaded 30 times
CK2.zip
(3.15 MiB) Downloaded 34 times
CK1.zip
(3.54 MiB) Downloaded 33 times
- John

Currently running Level 4 Econet with BBC B, BBC B+ 128K, Master 128K, 4Mb A3000, 4Mb A3020, 4Mb A4000, 4Mb A5000 dual FDD; UK101; HP41CX setup; Psion 3a, 3mx and 5mx; Z88; TI-58c, TI-59 and printer, HP-16C programmer's calculator

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby AndyF » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:16 am

flaxcottage wrote:Brill. Hope there is something MIA in there.


I hope so too. There is quite a bit of stuff:

floppies.jpg


At the moment I'm having issues with my DataCentre as I was going to image these last night.

There should be some MAPE stuff as well, the chap I got them from has a similar background to you as far as I know. :) , actually he's been trying to register here for a bit but caught up in the validation email. I'll email someone about that later to see if we can get him here.

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby billcarr2005 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:19 am

CMcDougall wrote:just have a look at the 2 discs in the Sherston thread, it's just one unformatted sector @ T39S8, so probably just checks to make sure sector is unreadable, then just carries on as normal, like others in the past. So just by-pass the 'read err is ok' code.


I'm not certain that a single sector can be unformatted, it's usually the entire track which has no sector headers and is therefore seen as unformatted. :roll:

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby CMcDougall » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:08 pm

^UPURS picked it up as a single error / '?', so to me is unformatted, hence the 'E5's all over that sector ONLY, or as you say in other thread, maybe just a CRC error check.
Why was it not easy like "the wizard's revenge" 25+ years ago when I sorted that, but back then had endless spare time to 'play'! :D

Don't know if you have a original copy of Arc Pinball - Shibumi Soft 1990, it only checked for a unreadable sector, then went on to load. That only had one bad sector in a track :-k , I only had the original for a week BITD, and just copied it with ADI, then had time to fix it so could just be *COPYed 8)
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Arc Pinball

Postby billcarr2005 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:07 pm

CMcDougall wrote:^UPURS picked it up as a single error / '?', so to me is unformatted, hence the 'E5's all over that sector ONLY, or as you say in other thread, maybe just a CRC error check.


I *think* UPURS reads an entire track at a time, so if the error occurs during that read, it just flags it up regardless where is appears.

Arc Pinball has track 1 unformatted. There's then a file LIXO which is loaded from absolute sector 002 but fails with a sector not found error when it reaches track 01 sector 00.
This error prevents the file from being copied, although it could be created in a shorter form, since only the first 3 bytes of the file are checked. This wouldn't work in the context of the BASIC BOOT1 file though, because it expects an error when loading the file, otherwise Z% is changed to the "wrong" value.

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby MartinB » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:08 am

billcarr wrote:I *think* UPURS reads an entire track at a time, so if the error occurs during that read, it just flags it up regardless where is appears.

Indeed it does. I didn't originally aim the UPURS export utils at protected disc recovery, it was intended to be used for archiving DFS discs, possibly quite old, where you might only have one shot before the coating falls off. Hence, the export routine doesn't attempt to delve any deeper than faulty tracks. With ignore errors set true, these utils simply report the presence of a fault and then carry on regardless, replacing all the transmitted image bytes of a defective track with $FA. (This method intentionally minimises the number of physical head wipes across a disc.)

I did imagine at the first release of the utilities that I'd likely be developing the options a little further but, because UPURS became something of an 'overnight success', I think I lost the impetus to mature the tools to more advanced disc recovery. I did make a few tweaks such as acknowledging/handling deleted data but that's about as far as I went with the V5.0 suite - I think that maybe you (billcarr) might have produced a bespoke tweaked version for your own use that more targets protected discs?

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby AndyF » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:23 am

Not sure if this is AWOL or not. I've actually found it floating around in my documents, dated 26/01/2000 ( ! ) I have no idea how / where I acquired it.

.dsd image

Educational.zip
(162.47 KiB) Downloaded 34 times


edu_1.png
edu_2.png


edu_3.png
edu_4.png


Seems I do not have any more of this 'series' as such unfortunately. I note there's some MEP titles hence the fourth screenshot.

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby Pernod » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:24 am

AndyF wrote:Not sure if this is AWOL or not. I've actually found it floating around in my documents, dated 26/01/2000 ( ! ) I have no idea how / where I acquired it.

Again, from here. I dumped all my discs back in 2000.
- Nigel

BBC Model B, ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, etc.

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby OneSwitch » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:22 pm


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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby paulv » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:54 pm

The touchscreens are great fun too.

The ebay listing points to a site for the software but you'll find images of that particular disc and so many more touchscreen titles on this thread and others on *. and also on my site here.

Paul

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flaxcottage
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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby flaxcottage » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:41 pm

Been busy over the last couple of days archiving some more educational software.

Attached is the latest list of the software I've archived up to 31 July 2016
Attachments
Educational Archive.zip
(9.93 KiB) Downloaded 36 times
- John

Currently running Level 4 Econet with BBC B, BBC B+ 128K, Master 128K, 4Mb A3000, 4Mb A3020, 4Mb A4000, 4Mb A5000 dual FDD; UK101; HP41CX setup; Psion 3a, 3mx and 5mx; Z88; TI-58c, TI-59 and printer, HP-16C programmer's calculator

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby Arcadian » Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:17 pm

Hi John, were you missing some early Highlight Software releases? Anything amongst this ebay listing, which includes a number of HS cassettes?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/13-bbc-comput ... Sw6n5XtegF
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk

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ABug Leicestershire (17-19 November 2017)

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billcarr2005
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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby billcarr2005 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:14 pm

Arcadian wrote:Hi John, were you missing some early Highlight Software releases? Anything amongst this ebay listing, which includes a number of HS cassettes?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/13-bbc-comput ... Sw6n5XtegF


I think all of the HS releases in the auction are the Reading Packs, or parts of it. I've got Reading Packs 1,2,3 and 4 on disk, if they're not already "in the wild" :)

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby lurkio » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:02 pm

Here's Zap The Numbers (1985) by Australian eduware company Edsoft. It's part of the Aussie educational bundle I bid on a while back (and solicited for donations for -- of which more later).

It came on a 5.25-inch single-sided DFS-format floppy disc, which was copy-protected. The 10 bits in the catalogue section of the disc which encode the total number of sectors had been hacked to make it look like the disc only had 79 tracks, when in fact it had the usual 80. Even Disc Doctor was fooled. Advanced Disc Investigator wasn't though.

The BASIC loader program, "INTRO ", calls OSWORD &7F to read the hidden 80th track, which is formatted but empty -- except for a single byte right in the middle, which is what "INTRO " checks for. It would have been easy enough to bypass the check completely, but to be more authentic/nerdy I found a way to recreate the hidden track on a .SSD disc image semi-manually.

Unfortunately, the resulting .SSD is only partly compatible with DataCentres: the main games work alright, but the Teacher's File doesn't, not even with *DTRAP on, because it relies on the DFS having put a copy of the disc-catalogue at &E00! Oh well...

Speaking of the catalogue, if you *CAT the disc, you don't get the full list of files, but Disc Doctor's *DZAP reveals all: VDU21 and other hidden codes all over the map.

All in all, an impressive combo of copy-protection techniques. The educational software market in '80s Oz must have been cut-throat.

Play online:


Download:

    ZAPNUM.ssd.zip
    .SSD disc image of Zap The Numbers
    (24.77 KiB) Downloaded 31 times

1.png
Screenshot of Zap The Numbers

2.png
Screenshot of Zap The Numbers

Scan 2.jpg
Front and back covers of the manual for Zap The Numbers

Scan 1.jpg
Manual title page, listing the authors of Zap The Numbers

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Re: Educational Archive not in STH

Postby lurkio » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:13 pm

Next up from the Aussie bundle is Cartoon by Newman College, distributed by Blakehurst Computer College in New South Wales.

It's a cartoon editor that lets you arrange pre-canned MODE 7 animations into a sequence that can be played back and recorded via the deathless medium of VHS. This was one for the budding John Lasseters in Beeb-owning schools of the 1980s. It includes a MODE 7 screen editor that lets you create your own static "scenes" that you can cut into your proto-ToyStory masterpieces.

Btw, the Teletext editor (though torture to use) inspired me to experiment with MODE 7 and create this one-line wonder that fills the screen repeatedly with colourful garbage:

Code: Select all

MODE7:VDU23,1,0;0;0;0;:REPEATM%=&7C00:FORJ%=1TO25:?M%=144+RND(7):M%?1=152+RND(2):M%=M%+2:FORI%=1TO38:REPEATR%=RND(64):UNTILR%<32ORR%>33:?M%=R%-30*(R%>32)+32:M%=M%+1:NEXT:NEXT:TIME=0:REPEATUNTILTIME>100:CLS:UNTIL0


Anyway, you can play with Cartoon online:


Download:

    CARTOON.SSD.zip
    .SSD disc image of Cartoon: there was no copy-protection on the original 5.25-inch DFS floppy disc
    (32.98 KiB) Downloaded 27 times

The manual:


3.png
Screenshot of title screen for Cartoon

1.png
Screenshot of menu screen for Cartoon

2.png
Screenshot of one of the "spooky" scenes in Cartoon
Last edited by lurkio on Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:13 am, edited 2 times in total.


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