with little shame update smartest1613

discussion of beeb/electron applications, languages, utils and educational s/w
dangardner
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with econet ???

Postby dangardner » Sun May 17, 2015 8:42 pm

I really want my Turbo MMC and Econet to work together (especially in turbo mode!) and I will test your ROM soon but right now I have too much else to do, sorry. Good job, by the way!

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with econet ???

Postby duikkie » Sun May 17, 2015 9:23 pm

i can't promise turbo writing, maybe turbo reading. because turbo reading and writing is with buffer over cb1/cb2 lines , see shematic.
cheap boards don't have buffer/block chip.
further more i don't think i have room anymore in my smart 16k rom.


dangardner wrote:I really want my Turbo MMC and Econet to work together (especially in turbo mode!) and I will test your ROM soon but right now I have too much else to do, sorry. Good job, by the way!

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with econet ???

Postby duikkie » Sun May 17, 2015 9:25 pm

i put drom back , i don't no if i checked for mmc/sd block mode . forgot to look :oops:

DutchAcorn wrote:
duikkie wrote:you are/was the only one that tested my roms :cry:

Oh dear, the social pressure! :shock:

I still have my regular BBC B and a Master Turbo to do testing on, it's just the Econet part that I can't currently cover...

Perhaps I should buy another BBC... [-X :?

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with econet ???

Postby duikkie » Thu May 28, 2015 7:12 pm

maybe turbo reading with smarttest2805

not tested in full
Attachments
SMARTEST2805.zip
(78.61 KiB) Downloaded 40 times

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DutchAcorn
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with econet ???

Postby DutchAcorn » Thu May 28, 2015 8:07 pm

duikkie wrote:maybe turbo reading with smarttest2805

not tested in full

Turbo works! Very zippy! =D> =D>

Something broke though. If I try to use the attached gallery disk (*e. !boot):
1) the Turbo version gives the Card? error which needs a few times hitting break to recover from.
2) the 99P reader hangs with a black screen.

Also tested it with the SMART 1104 version, that works without issues.

After the weekend I hope to have an Econet BBC again, for some further testing...
Attachments
GALLERY.zip
(151.38 KiB) Downloaded 37 times
Paul

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with econet ???

Postby duikkie » Fri May 29, 2015 1:46 am

only with this disk ??

WOW smart version 1104 , that is some changes ago :(
(life was easy in those days)

i will look , works turbo reading with all cards ?? / mmc /sd and sdhc ??
i know it is allso a timing problem with turbo reading
sometimes the beeb is to fast :shock: , and do not wait for card responce

i will post a &d00 version : maybe the disk needs &a00 area ??

DutchAcorn wrote:
duikkie wrote:maybe turbo reading with smarttest2805

not tested in full

Turbo works! Very zippy! =D> =D>

Something broke though. If I try to use the attached gallery disk (*e. !boot):
1) the Turbo version gives the Card? error which needs a few times hitting break to recover from.
2) the 99P reader hangs with a black screen.

Also tested it with the SMART 1104 version, that works without issues.

After the weekend I hope to have an Econet BBC again, for some further testing...

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Fri May 29, 2015 5:30 am

strange languane that zip file :) , google translate ??
something programmed in WIET dutch ? :shock:

( rare lui die Hollanders #-o )

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DutchAcorn
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby DutchAcorn » Fri May 29, 2015 8:45 am

duikkie wrote:strange languane that zip file :) , google translate ??
I thought something in Dutch might appeal to you :D
It's a useful testcase because of the relatively large images.

duikkie wrote:WOW smart version 1104 , that is some changes ago :(
Narrowed it down: in version 0905 it still works, from 1405 it fails.

duikkie wrote:i will look , works turbo reading with all cards ?? / mmc /sd and sdhc ??
Tried it with MMC, SD and SDHC.


The turbo reading is faster, but not as fast as the Turbo MMC:

*backup:
Turbo MMC: 0:12 (12 seconds)
SPI 0105: 1:05 (over a minute)
SPI 2805: 0:55 (10 seconds faster than 0105)

Aviator Colour loading:
Turbo MMC: 0:01:34 (bit over a second)
SPI 0105: 0:02:96 (almost 3 seconds)
SPI 2805: 0:01:56 (bit more over a second)

I wanted to try Elite as a benchmark (takes longer to load) but that crashes on SPI 2805.
Paul

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Fri May 29, 2015 9:26 am

the problem with the zip file is ldpic it loads at &900 +13d and that is in the &a00 area where the smart rom store the values .

i will see if &d00 , solve the problem ?

you can do it with j.mem file dvars%=&d00 and than *exec !boot , after that f1 chain make. file n.smart is your rom :)

the speed is not that good :) , TURBO MMC don't calculate the pblines and ports
it has fixed valeus for it.

so if it is not that fast maybe it is not that usefull

elite maybe also use &a00 for something ??

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Fri May 29, 2015 10:38 am

the disc version smart values at &d00 , gallery works. elite ?
Attachments
SMARTEST2905.zip
(78.29 KiB) Downloaded 39 times

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DutchAcorn
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby DutchAcorn » Fri May 29, 2015 12:22 pm

duikkie wrote:the disc version smart values at &d00 , gallery works. elite ?

Gallery works :D , Elite still crashes :( .
Paul

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Fri May 29, 2015 1:27 pm

which version is elite running ??
in those days i was playing with sideway fe60/fe62 for stl sideway
allso i steal open file things at 1500/1600
maybe elite opens 5 files ??

or maybe the turbo reading is not good for elite ??


DutchAcorn wrote:
duikkie wrote:the disc version smart values at &d00 , gallery works. elite ?

Gallery works :D , Elite still crashes :( .

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DutchAcorn
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby DutchAcorn » Fri May 29, 2015 1:40 pm

duikkie wrote:which version is elite running ??...


This one (attached).
Attachments
AC3-r1-0.zip
(70.77 KiB) Downloaded 40 times
Paul

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Fri May 29, 2015 3:20 pm

if it is the same as the one on my card , this elite is not running on super mmc rom the not duikkie mod either :)

so i don't think it will run on turbo rom ?

something with elite software and mmc ?? / is it running from disk ? or is is FIFA BLADDER ???

DutchAcorn wrote:
duikkie wrote:which version is elite running ??...


This one (attached).

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DutchAcorn
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby DutchAcorn » Fri May 29, 2015 5:47 pm

duikkie wrote:if it is the same as the one on my card , this elite is not running on super mmc rom the not duikkie mod either :)

I don't know about the version on your card but the version I attached works on SuperMMC, TurboMMC and SmartSPI 0905 (but not later).

In SPI 2905 it crashes back to

Code: Select all

BBC Computer
Smart SPI
BASIC
>
as if you'd pressed Break while loading.

It's not the same one as the AC4-r1-0 version, that requires a copro or M128 and switches to DFS on a beeb.
Paul

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Fri May 29, 2015 6:12 pm

oke i will look maybe tomorrow

DutchAcorn wrote:
duikkie wrote:if it is the same as the one on my card , this elite is not running on super mmc rom the not duikkie mod either :)

I don't know about the version on your card but the version I attached works on SuperMMC, TurboMMC and SmartSPI 0905 (but not later).

In SPI 2905 it crashes back to

Code: Select all

BBC Computer
Smart SPI
BASIC
>
as if you'd pressed Break while loading.

It's not the same one as the AC4-r1-0 version, that requires a copro or M128 and switches to DFS on a beeb.

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Sat May 30, 2015 5:00 pm

oke the elite zip file , is not working with org. mmc rom or super rom on my beeb

try smartest3005: i used a very old make .
pa.=&1d00 and no workspace at 1500 , arg0,0=4 again

maybe eltie use all 5 files and check with filesystem is used


DutchAcorn wrote:
duikkie wrote:if it is the same as the one on my card , this elite is not running on super mmc rom the not duikkie mod either :)

I don't know about the version on your card but the version I attached works on SuperMMC, TurboMMC and SmartSPI 0905 (but not later).

In SPI 2905 it crashes back to

Code: Select all

BBC Computer
Smart SPI
BASIC
>
as if you'd pressed Break while loading.

It's not the same one as the AC4-r1-0 version, that requires a copro or M128 and switches to DFS on a beeb.
Attachments
SMARTEST3005.zip
(78.25 KiB) Downloaded 38 times

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DutchAcorn
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby DutchAcorn » Sun May 31, 2015 6:57 pm

duikkie wrote:oke the elite zip file , is not working with org. mmc rom or super rom on my beeb

Very odd. Just tried it on the BBC Bram gave me and it works on that one as well.
duikkie wrote:try smartest3005: i used a very old make .
pa.=&1d00 and no workspace at 1500 , arg0,0=4 again

I tried the 3005 version and Elite works! Gallery also still works.

And I could finally try Econet compatibilty =D> =D> =D> :
econet card.jpg


Now that Elite works I could use that as a benchmark. I noticed something unexpected (for me); the speed increase on the 3005 version does not need the Turbo hardware.

Elite loading:
Turbo MMC: 0:03:58 (about 3,5 seconds)
SPI 0105: 0:05:76 (well over 5 seconds)
SPI 3005: 0:04:06 (4 seconds)

So Smart SPI seems to be about 30% faster than Super MMC on the same 99P hardware! #-o =D> :D
Paul

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Sun May 31, 2015 8:59 pm

i will make version , so you can try elite if i only change pa.=1900 , workspace at &1500 and arg0,0=&61 :)

i personaly think it is the arg,0,0=&61 because you have elite for many acorn machines so i think it checks if there is a dfs file system :)

on large reading blocks turbo reading is faster than checking one byte
because i store all valeus for feXX first and put it back after turbo reading.

i will fix some other things like the led lights ?? , maybe turbo writing only for turbo board, but i do not know if there is space left for it. and it must not blow up the cheap mmc or your userport #-o ( have only &80 bytes left) in rom

there will be a SMART SPI AND SMARD SPI version (i was always dyletisch :) T=&A00 values for TAPE machines and D=&D00 for disk , econet ??
(

DutchAcorn wrote:
duikkie wrote:oke the elite zip file , is not working with org. mmc rom or super rom on my beeb

Very odd. Just tried it on the BBC Bram gave me and it works on that one as well.
duikkie wrote:try smartest3005: i used a very old make .
pa.=&1d00 and no workspace at 1500 , arg0,0=4 again

I tried the 3005 version and Elite works! Gallery also still works.

And I could finally try Econet compatibilty =D> =D> =D> :
econet card.jpg


Now that Elite works I could use that as a benchmark. I noticed something unexpected (for me); the speed increase on the 3005 version does not need the Turbo hardware.

Elite loading:
Turbo MMC: 0:03:58 (about 3,5 seconds)
SPI 0105: 0:05:76 (well over 5 seconds)
SPI 3005: 0:04:06 (4 seconds)

So Smart SPI seems to be about 30% faster than Super MMC on the same 99P hardware! #-o =D> :D

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:06 am

even apeldoorn bellen , foutje bedankt :)

not very slim of me , trying to *exec a run !boot [-X

version 2905 indeed not working, but at least i can check it now
do not forget to *run !boot :oops:

DutchAcorn wrote:
duikkie wrote:if it is the same as the one on my card , this elite is not running on super mmc rom the not duikkie mod either :)

I don't know about the version on your card but the version I attached works on SuperMMC, TurboMMC and SmartSPI 0905 (but not later).

In SPI 2905 it crashes back to

Code: Select all

BBC Computer
Smart SPI
BASIC
>
as if you'd pressed Break while loading.

It's not the same one as the AC4-r1-0 version, that requires a copro or M128 and switches to DFS on a beeb.

duikkie
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Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:00 am

elite checks if filesystem is dfs and because i changed it to 61 and not 4 , we have a not filesystem DFS anymore.

the problem is not the SMART rom but the software like elite and gallary. they use things like loading at &900..&aff or cheching filesystem for dfs :(

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sweh
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby sweh » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:43 pm

Many programs load data into pages &9 and &A because it's generally considered free space for applications that don't use the RS232 or tape interfaces. You can't freely use them for your filesystem and not expect things to break. Just looking at the LOAD address on the disks Mike has completed, there are around 37 games that may use page 9
Rgds
Stephen

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:52 pm

that is allways the problem :) , with program's from disk . the use of space that is not really FREE :x , my SMART rom can easy place his/her value's somewhere else like D00 but that is the place for NMI dfs, so DFS disk and econet will destroy the values. SO duikkie is looking in all wrong places to find .....

&900=sound area

sweh wrote:Many programs load data into pages &9 and &A because it's generally considered free space for applications that don't use the RS232 or tape interfaces. You can't freely use them for your filesystem and not expect things to break. Just looking at the LOAD address on the disks Mike has completed, there are around 37 games that may use page 9

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tricky
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby tricky » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:58 pm

Is it possible to use the same pages as DFS when reading, as that would help with compatibility?

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sweh
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby sweh » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:27 pm

duikkie wrote:&900=sound area

Actually it's complicated. The AUG says it has 3 uses:
a) 900->9BF = envelope 5->16; 9C0->9FF = Speech buffer
b) 900->9BF = RS423 output buffer; 9C0->9FF = Speech buffer
c) 900->9FF = cassette output buffer

(Page 8 is the primary sound area)
Rgds
Stephen

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:49 pm

it can be at &d00 , but compatibility with econet and using dfs disk is then the problem / old mmc/tutbo/super mmc problem .

where you put it , it allways make a problem somewhere. :cry:

tricky wrote:Is it possible to use the same pages as DFS when reading, as that would help with compatibility?

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:17 am

the version 0206 , has it leds back :shock:

values at &d00 and filesystem=4 (damm elite)

i have about 60 instuction left in rom
for turbo writing for turbo board
i don't know if that is enough ??
the cheap board will never have turbo write :(

and then the end is NEAR , the final SMARTEST :)
Attachments
SMARTEST0206.zip
(78.39 KiB) Downloaded 39 times

duikkie
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Re: working on new SMART rom : with tubo read /econet

Postby duikkie » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:00 pm

i think the last version , before everybody can use SMART SPI as a rom

in version 0306 , i hope i have implanted turbo writting for the turbo board,
the cheap board without buffer , will never have turbo writting. !!!

because i don't have a turbo board i CAN"T TEST the turbo writting
i hope i did not make any mistakes

SO TEST WITH CARE if you have TURBO board !!!
i check if you have a turbo board with a value bufchip=8.
(use another sd card for testing with turboboard(( by the way test always with another sd :) )

HAVE FUN WITH IT
maybe more peolpe can TEST the SMART SPI !!!

i will end all programming on this project, only if there is an error i will try to correct it :P

if no errors are there i will make docs in dutch to explain all valeus and 6502 codes , so that someone else in 20xx can modify it.

i had 120 bytes left in rom, no much so this is it !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E2hYDIFDIU


because it is not working : removed file :(
Last edited by duikkie on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DutchAcorn
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Re: NEW SMART rom: with tubo read /econet?/turbo write

Postby DutchAcorn » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:43 pm

This version no longer works with the TurboMMC hardware :(
Gives the "Card?" error.

99P reader seems to work fine.
Paul

duikkie
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Re: NEW SMART rom: with tubo read /econet?/turbo write

Postby duikkie » Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:38 pm

edit wait a minute :oops:

mmmm , then i did make a mistake somewhere ??

i do not understand ? the thing i changed was turbo writting , so reading is the same.

is you turbo board and sd card still working ?? ( version 206 software ??)


DutchAcorn wrote:This version no longer works with the TurboMMC hardware :(
Gives the "Card?" error.

99P reader seems to work fine.


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