Music 5000 in B-Em

want to talk about MESS/model b/beebem/b-em/electrem/elkulator? do it here!
Coeus
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:05 am

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby Coeus » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:43 pm

Dave, it does seem to pick up -O3 if you set it in the environment but we probably should add it to Makefile.am.

Coeus
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:05 am

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby Coeus » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:50 pm

I'll have to do some more digging on that "optimised" version. Trying to detect cases where a particular piece of the screen need not be redrawn does seem like it would be fairly complex. I did wonder if we could simply detect if any of the display RAM has been written to but this would have to be for a whole vertical refresh period, not just in the last clock cycle.

Having discovered that having video_poll do nothing resolves the problem I was looking for something that would be different between Windows and Linux and there are plenty of differences in vidalleg.c. On that basis I wondered if the issue was that the blit operation on Linux was blocking the calling process, whereas on Windows it didn't. To test that theory I implemented a version in which the blit happens in a different thread and that does seem to have made an improvement in the sense that AMPLE now does catch up again during Apache but it is not as effective as not doing all the work in video_poll.

The really puzzling thing is that the CPU usage is only about 25% of one core and instrumenting the main loop (main_run) shows that for the vast majority of 1us iterations the variable fcount, which seems to indicate the number of frames outstanding, being incremented by a 50ms timer, is zero so it doesn't even run the m6502_exec function and all the other stuff that goes with it. None of this suggests that the CPU is too slow overall.

Experimenting with threads, and also question of the video output, reminds me that Thomas was proposing to port B-Em to Allegro5. This was, I think, on the basis that it has some GUI functions built-in, like some native dialogs, rather than have to also import a library like Qt or GTK+, and because it was expected to be able to make use of hardware acceleration. I also note that it has a threads API and also changes to an event model rather than a polling method. I don't think this last point would necessarily be an issue. The two obvious questions I have are:

1. Are we right to expect better hawdware acceleration?
2. How easy is it to get allegro5 installed on Windows?

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6085
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby hoglet » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:03 pm

Coeus wrote:1. Are we right to expect better hawdware acceleration?

I think so.

Allegro 5 should also overcome the issues the people have with Allegro 4 not working on MAC OSX 10.7 and later.
Coeus wrote:2. How easy is it to get allegro5 installed on Windows?

There are binary packages available, for various versions on MinGW and MSVC,
https://www.allegro.cc/files/?v=5.0

It will be quite a bit of work.

User avatar
ThomasAdam
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:35 am
Location: Southampton, England
Contact:

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby ThomasAdam » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:49 pm

Having already started to look into this, it's not so much a port, as it is a complete rewrite. That's important to note, because there's very few similarities between Allegro4 and Allegro5.

That said, what interests me about Allegro5 is the backend parts. On Windows, there's the use of its native GUI stuff, and on !Windows, you can use GTK. QT is questionable at this point; B-em is written in C, not C++.

It is per this example: https://github.com/liballeg/allegro5/bl ... /ex_menu.c -- that the possibilities of having a non-modal menu are realised, which would then be platform-agnostic, AIUI.

But, getting to that point isn't a small amount of work. I should really push what I have to Github; I've been a little busy with $LIFE -- sorry, chaps. There are other changes with Allegro5 that I've not looked into yet, but from what I've been seeing thus far, I think there's sill enough of the things we're making use in Allegro4 that are available in Allegro5 -- and by that, I mean all of the video rendering, etc.

Kindly,
Thomas

paddler
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby paddler » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:58 pm

Dave, thanks so much for your work on getting Music 500/5000 emulation working - I'm pretty sure it sounds better and clearer than my original Music 500 unit! I've not had the chance to hear any Music 500/5000 stuff since something went awry with my hardware years ago, causing it to produce distorted noise and not much else.

Just in case anyone is interested, I've uploaded some of my better Music 5000 creations from the 1989-1990 period (in various states of completion) here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-QhLh7MxUu1XzdXamFyTjdzU28 I'll add some more as and when I find them.

Regards,

Patrick

Coeus
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:05 am

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby Coeus » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:00 pm

For anyone interested in comparing I have put some recordings of the demo tunes on a real Music 500 on Google Drive at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7B-w ... WJRQ0tiRW8

There are two versions of each file. The FLAC file with the name ending HQ is a losslessly compressed, 24bit 96Khz recording which is intended as a reference - these might, for example, reveal characteristics about the ouput filter etc. These files are big. The other version is an MP3 file which should still sound good and are smaller to download.

paddler wrote:Dave, thanks so much for your work on getting Music 500/5000 emulation working - I'm pretty sure it sounds better and clearer than my original Music 500 unit! I've not had the chance to hear any Music 500/5000 stuff since something went awry with my hardware years ago, causing it to produce distorted noise and not much else.


Do you still have the real hardware? I plugged mine in after it had been unused for well over 20 years and got silence. Reseating the 1Mhz bus connector got a jumbled and distorted sound and then inserting and removing it a few times to clean the contacts restored it to just as I remember. Maybe your issue was a dodgy connection too.

paddler wrote:Just in case anyone is interested, I've uploaded some of my better Music 5000 creations from the 1989-1990 period (in various states of completion) here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-QhLh7MxUu1XzdXamFyTjdzU28 I'll add some more as and when I find them.


I will listen to these. For 5000 format music I am limited to the emulator at the moment as I don't have the ROMs of SWRAM in the real BBC but I hope to resolve that next week. Thanks for sharing.

paddler
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby paddler » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:39 pm

Coeus wrote:Do you still have the real hardware? I plugged mine in after it had been unused for well over 20 years and got silence. Reseating the 1Mhz bus connector got a jumbled and distorted sound and then inserting and removing it a few times to clean the contacts restored it to just as I remember. Maybe your issue was a dodgy connection too.


I do have the original hardware somewhere. I'll give your suggestion a try. Thanks for the tip.

Regards,

Patrick

User avatar
major_parts
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby major_parts » Wed May 03, 2017 8:56 am

well done on the work put in to this! I prayed for the Beech developer to continue and thought it was abandoned.

There is a problem that has probably gone unnoticed...The disc image you provide contains a ROM that doesn't work properly. This may help Pixelblip with the staff editor....When you go to the staff editor and create a new word, TABbing onto the editor will clear that word and reset it back to "newword". Leaving it at "newword" and MAKEing will create an empty word.

Towards the end of the "Beech" thread, I attached a ROM image that works. There is also a M5000 disc image that I know will work with the ROM, should there be an issue with the ROM on its own.

Thanks for continuing this, it made my day finding out about it!

User avatar
SimonSideburns
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:09 pm
Location: Purbrook, Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby SimonSideburns » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:25 pm

I've recently become the owner of a Music 500 system and Symphony 4000 keyboard, along with a whole bunch of floppies and manuals.

In case there's anything of interest among the floppies, I have archived them with my DataCentre.

Some were 80 track, some 40, and some were 80 one side and 40 the other (which can't be exported in one go so there are some files with a 0 or 2 at the end indicating the side).

One of the disks is titled Music City, and one has files from the pet shop boys and is called Plaice, but changed into names of things sea related (such as West End Gills, and It's A Fin).

If there's an archive of songs that would be a great resource. I might have some on my DataCentre's USB stick.
Attachments
Ample and Hybrid Music System 500, 5000 and 4000 Keyboard.zip
Archive of disks exported (imaged) today
(583.27 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
I'm writing a game where you can change your character from a Wizard to a monkey to a cat.

Well, Imogen that!

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 4764
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby danielj » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:41 am

Thanks Simon! :D

d.

User avatar
SimonSideburns
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:09 pm
Location: Purbrook, Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby SimonSideburns » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:50 am

I forgot to mention, at least one of the disks when *CATted gives two pages of files on the screen (with a pause between).

I believe it is using a version of Solidisk DDFS. I hope you can view the files (if I work out which one I will try loading that DFS in BeebEm and see if I can see the double listing).

If it's inconvenient as it is, I can then try to grab half the files onto a normal floppy and put the others on another one.

EDIT: Just tried loading a version of Solidisk DFS into Beebem and it won't access any floppy, complaining of disk error without even trying.

However, I do note my emulator's hardware configuration is set to use the standard 8271 controller but the Solidisk comes up thinking it's using a 1770 (as reported on the initial boot screen in brackets alongside the name of the DFS).
I'm writing a game where you can change your character from a Wizard to a monkey to a cat.

Well, Imogen that!

User avatar
Pernod
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:01 pm
Location: Croydon, UK

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby Pernod » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:16 am

SimonSideburns wrote:I forgot to mention, at least one of the disks when *CATted gives two pages of files on the screen (with a pause between).

I believe it is using a version of Solidisk DDFS. I hope you can view the files (if I work out which one I will try loading that DFS in BeebEm and see if I can see the double listing).

Which disk does this? I can try it in my MAME build that supports the Solidisk board.
- Nigel

BBC Model B, ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, etc.

User avatar
SimonSideburns
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:09 pm
Location: Purbrook, Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby SimonSideburns » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:12 pm

Sorry, I forgot to include it in the archive previously.

Of the two files, one cannot be *IMPORTED into one of the the DataCentre's RAM drives, returning a Too Big error, the other is imported (only one side I think) but only shows 31 files out of the 43 on the disk.

I haven't tried to *IMPORT back to a physical disk as I don't have any blanks right now, but I did find a box of floppies with stuff on that has to be archived so I will do so and then see what I get back.

Will report back later.
Attachments
demotunes.zip
(171.16 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
I'm writing a game where you can change your character from a Wizard to a monkey to a cat.

Well, Imogen that!

User avatar
Pernod
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:01 pm
Location: Croydon, UK

Re: Music 5000 in B-Em

Postby Pernod » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:27 pm

I was able to access the second catalogue using a Solidisk 2.2 DFS, and have copied all extra files to the attached SSD.
Attachments
demotunes_ext.zip
(26.74 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
- Nigel

BBC Model B, ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, etc.


Return to “emulators”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests