ICE T65/Z80/6809

discussion of games, software, hardware & emulators relating to the Acorn Atom
User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby hoglet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:32 pm

sirmorris wrote:Mention has been made of a schematic for the adapter - does anyone have this handy?

I too would very much like to see this.

Jason, do you have anything you could upload please?

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby hoglet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:51 pm

hoglet wrote:Well, I can already tell you it didn't work first time!

It looks like the UCF pin assignment is possibly incorrect, as the seems to be coming out on the wrong pin!

A bit of head scratching is now going on.....

Panic over...

It's now working:

Code: Select all

>> help
ICE-T65 In-Circuit Emulator version 0.73
Compiled at 15:39:32 on Aug  9 2017
8 watches/breakpoints implemented
Commands:
    help
    continue
    step
    regs
    dis
    fill
    crc
    mem
    rdm
    wrm
    test
    srec
    reset
    trace
    blist
    breakx
    watchx
    breakrm
    watchrm
    breakwm
    watchwm
    clear
    trigger
>> m 8000
8000 C9 01 F0 1F 60 EA 60 0E 01 42 41 53 49 43 00 28  ....`.`..BASIC.(
8010 43 29 31 39 38 32 20 41 63 6F 72 6E 0A 0D 00 00  C)1982 Acorn....
8020 80 00 00 A9 84 20 F4 FF 86 06 84 07 A9 83 20 F4  ..... ........ .
8030 FF 84 18 A2 00 86 1F 8E 02 04 8E 03 04 CA 86 23  ...............#
8040 A2 0A 8E 00 04 CA 8E 01 04 A9 01 25 11 05 0D 05  ...........%....
8050 0E 05 0F 05 10 D0 0C A9 41 85 0D A9 52 85 0E A9  ........A...R...
8060 57 85 0F A9 02 8D 02 02 A9 B4 8D 03 02 58 4C DD  W............XL.
8070 8A 41 4E 44 80 00 41 42 53 94 00 41 43 53 95 00  .AND..ABS..ACS..
8080 41 44 56 41 4C 96 00 41 53 43 97 00 41 53 4E 98  ADVAL..ASC..ASN.
8090 00 41 54 4E 99 00 41 55 54 4F C6 10 42 47 45 54  .ATN..AUTO..BGET
80A0 9A 01 42 50 55 54 D5 03 43 4F 4C 4F 55 52 FB 02  ..BPUT..COLOUR..
80B0 43 41 4C 4C D6 02 43 48 41 49 4E D7 02 43 48 52  CALL..CHAIN..CHR
80C0 24 BD 00 43 4C 45 41 52 D8 01 43 4C 4F 53 45 D9  $..CLEAR..CLOSE.
80D0 03 43 4C 47 DA 01 43 4C 53 DB 01 43 4F 53 9B 00  .CLG..CLS..COS..
80E0 43 4F 55 4E 54 9C 01 44 41 54 41 DC 20 44 45 47  COUNT..DATA. DEG
80F0 9D 00 44 45 46 DD 00 44 45 4C 45 54 45 C7 10 44  ..DEF..DELETE..D
>>

The error was that somehow the pin assignment for pins 37 and 38 got swapped :oops:

I'll push a change to all the .ucf files shortly.

Dave

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby hoglet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:56 pm

IMG_1008.JPG

I'm wondering if we should flip the pinout so the USB cables comes out the top.

Dave

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby hoglet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:50 pm

Hi Charlie,
sirmorris wrote:Woohoo! I haven't had a minute to try mine :(

Just as well you waited, would not have worked. I had the pin assignment for DIP pins 37 and 38 the wrong way around (which on the Z80 would have swapped two address lines). This would have been a pig to remotely diagnose. :lol:

I've just pushed new board.ucf file to github that fixes this.

Make sure you update, and do "make clobber; make"
sirmorris wrote:I'm still a little confused about where the power jumpers need to go. The shifters will have their high side powered by the device under test as I understand it. The ice will be powered by usb. What does this mean for jumpers on the adapter board?

Here's a high res picture of how I've got mine jumpered for the 6502:
IMG_1009.JPG

Pin 1 (6502 GND) is jumpered to the 0V plane.
Pin 8 (6502 VCC) is jumpered to the 5V plane. This supplied +5V to the pullups.
Pin 21 (6502 GND) is jumpered to the 0V plane.
The JPA1 and JPB1 jumpers are left open, as the FPGA board is powered from the USB +5V supply.
sirmorris wrote:*edit the central island should *not* have the 0R resistors fitted which connect the central island to the fpga board connectors. Instead the central island should be jumpered to whichever pin has 5v 'pon it at the processor connector. Amirite?

Yes, so for the Z80 you should:
- leave JPA1 and JPB1 open.
- jumper DIP pin 11 (Z80 VCC) to the central island.
- jumper DIP pin 29 (Z80 GND) to the 0V plane.

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sirmorris
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:18 pm
Location: oxfordshire uk
Contact:

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby sirmorris » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:34 pm

And did you remove the pull-ups from the pins which are for power? Or leave them as-was? I'd be tempted to remove them.

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby hoglet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:42 pm

sirmorris wrote:And did you remove the pull-ups from the pins which are for power? Or leave them as-was? I'd be tempted to remove them.

I don't think it's necessary to remove them.

I certainly haven't, as it would make it difficult to re-configure the board for a different processor.

The one on the VCC pin is effectively shorted out by the soldered jumper.

The one on the GND pin will be drawing current, but only 3.3mA.

Dave

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby hoglet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:22 pm

At the risk for further confusion, I've added a set of alternate builds for the lx9 board that differ only in that the DIP pinout has been rotated 180 degrees:
https://github.com/hoglet67/AtomBusMon/ ... on_flipped

This allows the USB cable to exit at the pin 1 end of the 40 pin DIP.

Whether this is an improvement or not depends on the machine you are putting the ICE in. For the Beeb you really need to do this or the USB cable fouls the keyboard, as can be seen in the photo in my earlier post.

Dave

User avatar
Elminster
Posts: 1632
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:09 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby Elminster » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:55 pm

Did I miss something, where did the extra board to plug the FPGA into the 40 pin DIP on 6502 come from?

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 6721
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby 1024MAK » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:58 pm

Elminster wrote:Did I miss something, where did the extra board to plug the FPGA into the 40 pin DIP on 6502 come from?

Yes, you missed that a few members have prototype boards. If it proves suitable and workable, we hope more boards will be produced.

Mark
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk NOW!
BeebWiki‬ - for answers to many questions...

User avatar
Elminster
Posts: 1632
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:09 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby Elminster » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:03 pm

I see. I read it, when I kicked the thread back to life a month ago, that Jason had done the prototype, but that is as far as it got, didnt realise there were several prototypes made and kicking about.

I wondered how Dave built a board so fast, so your are saying he cheated and already had it.

User avatar
sirmorris
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:18 pm
Location: oxfordshire uk
Contact:

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby sirmorris » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:09 pm

Thanks Dave!

I'm really appreciative of the work you and many others put in. I am totally a follower-along in a lot of things, like this for example, and having you forging the way is a great encouragement. I could never start something like this by myself :-({|= but having a worked example to learn from is a total win for me!

Cheers \:D/

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 6721
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby 1024MAK » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:11 pm

Does this help?

And no, so far I have not asked Jason myself #-o

So does this solution work okay? Hopefully Dave will soon find out (unless I missed something).

Assuming it does, Jason, are you up for selling some boards please [-o<

Mark
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk NOW!
BeebWiki‬ - for answers to many questions...

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby hoglet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:39 pm

1024MAK wrote:So does this solution work okay? Hopefully Dave will soon find out (unless I missed something).

It does work well in the Beeb, which is all I have tried it in so far.

It should in theory work as well as the GODIL did, because it uses the same type of level shifter technology.

Which is to say, it depends on the design of the host system, specifically whether it can tolerate strong pull-ups. My experience of using the GODIL in some Sinclair systems was the 1.5K pull-ups caused it not to work. Charlie is building his board with 10K pullups, which should help a lot. Mine was already built, and has 1.5K pullups.

That said, I've yet to find a 6502 system that it fails in, and I've tried:
- BBC Model B
- Electron
- Atom
- Superboard II

An adapter that uses dual rail push-pull level shifters (like the 74LVC4245A) should work better, but a different adapter design will be needed for every CPU family. I'm doing one of these for the 6502 as a proof of concept.

You could, in principle, design a generic form of such an adapter, but the direction and output enable of each pin would need to be individually settable. This needs 2x, possibly 3x, the number of FPGA I/Os. I think even Jason gave up at this point!

Dave

User avatar
flynnjs
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:33 pm

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby flynnjs » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:49 pm

hoglet wrote:You could, in principle, design a generic form of such an adapter, but the direction and output enable of each pin would need to be individually settable. This needs 2x, possibly 3x, the number of FPGA I/Os. I think even Jason gave up at this point!
Dave


You can do it as a custom board but there aren't enough IO lines on the DE0 style headers.

The new board I'm preparing does use "proper" driven shifters but isn't jumperable to non-6502 arrangements.
As I mentioned, once it's proven on 6502, I might re-spin for other pinouts as all the hard work is the BGA
escape routing and that can all be re-used.

I have a number of the boards that Dave and Charlie are using available, although I can't post them out until
early September due to other commitments.

HardyD
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:07 am

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby HardyD » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:16 am

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I'm an electronics technician with a little bit of programming experience. I've also got some experience with analog designs and troubleshooting.

I've got several projects right now that a good Z80 or 6502 ICE would really help out with. Is there anything I can do to help?

bprosman
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby bprosman » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 pm

Just to be sure, now that the Godil's are "out".
Would this board work to make an ICE-T-xx ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Xilinx-FPGA-Spa ... Sw-7RVF8vl

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby hoglet » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:27 pm

bprosman wrote:Just to be sure, now that the Godil's are "out".
Would this board work to make an ICE-T-xx ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Xilinx-FPGA-Spa ... Sw-7RVF8vl

Yes it does; I have one of from this same vendor.

But you also need one of the level shifter boards from Jason Flynn, and I'm not sure of the status of them. He said he was tied up until mid September.

Dave

bprosman
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby bprosman » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:28 am

Hi Hoglet,

Can I do my own level shifters like this ?
https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/datasheets/AN10441.pdf

Kind regards, Bram

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby hoglet » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:12 am

bprosman wrote:Can I do my own level shifters like this ?
https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/datasheets/AN10441.pdf

Honestly I'm not sure, I have no experience with those devices.

It is a particular machine type you are interested in using this in, or are there several?

Dave

bprosman
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby bprosman » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:38 am

Hi Dave,

It is a particular machine type you are interested in using this in, or are there several?

Mainly 6502 (Atom) and Z80 (Homebrew system).
But if it is just 5 <-> 3,3 Volt level shifting (?) then I will try this method.

Regards, Bram

User avatar
fordp
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:08 pm
Location: Kent, England

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby fordp » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:31 pm

I hope I can get a level shifter ;)

IMG_20170901_172151.jpg
FordP (Simon Ellwood)
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so!

bprosman
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby bprosman » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:23 pm

I have ordered a few of these.
Lets see what we can solder together.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/381439255015

bprosman
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby bprosman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:08 am

Received these over the weekend. Let's see whether these can work.

Level Shifter 1.jpg

Level Shifter 2.jpg

txb0108.pdf
(1.3 MiB) Downloaded 7 times


Regards, Bram

bprosman
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby bprosman » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:32 pm

If you dont work with a Godil (kind of costruction) but with seperate level shifters and you want to build the ICE like in the picture, how long you all think the max length of the flatcable could be ?

Signum-Systems-USP-51-8051-In-Circuit-Emulator-ICE-USP-51A.jpg

User avatar
flynnjs
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:33 pm

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby flynnjs » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:31 pm

fordp wrote:I hope I can get a level shifter ;)


I'm back in circulation now so I'll get some of those on the webshop at the weekend (along with some BeebSCSI-minis too)

User avatar
fordp
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:08 pm
Location: Kent, England

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby fordp » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:57 am

flynnjs wrote:
fordp wrote:I hope I can get a level shifter ;)


I'm back in circulation now so I'll get some of those on the webshop at the weekend (along with some BeebSCSI-minis too)


Any news. I would like to get started on my 6502 diagnostic tool!
FordP (Simon Ellwood)
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so!

bprosman
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby bprosman » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:33 am

Hi,

Even though Dave provided the compiled burnable files I tried to run it myself in an Ubuntu VM.
But I run into this and cant find how to fix it (i have seen it in this trhreat before) :

Xilinx Error 001.JPG



//Edit SORRY GUYS,
The unset LD_LIBRARY_PATH did it.

User avatar
BigEd
Posts: 1435
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:24 am
Location: West
Contact:

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby BigEd » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:45 am

The way I get around this is to keep at least one clean shell in which I haven't sourced the Xilinx setup files. Once I've run the xilinx setup, various things are broken. For this reason I don't add the xilinx setup to my startup files - it is not the default environment.

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby hoglet » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:44 am

The following should work:

Code: Select all

export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=
make clobber build

Dave

User avatar
BigEd
Posts: 1435
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:24 am
Location: West
Contact:

Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Postby BigEd » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:52 am

One trick I use a lot is the local change:

Code: Select all

env LD_LIBRARY_PATH= make clobber build

It persists through the whole subtree of processes but not into your env for subsequent commands.


Return to “acorn atom”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: oss003 and 5 guests