Question about Complete BBC Games site

feedback, questions and discussion relating to the Complete BBC Games Archive (beta site now open!)
Black Background
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Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby Black Background » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:22 am

Hi there, been very much enjoying the "Complete BBC Games Archive" but I have one issue with the site

After while, the white background colour of the site really begins to hurt my eyes! Is there any way I can view the games with a black background, or alternatively make the games "full screen" when played in the browser?

apart from this, brilliant site, congrats to all involved.

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leenew
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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby leenew » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:21 am

Hi
Welcome to the forum Black Background. ☺
I love your username, it totally suits your enquiry!
I quite like the white background and I probably look at the site more than any other human :shock:
I shall ask Paul if it is possible to choose a black background or (my favourite) a grey wallpaper with images of beeb game characters... :D
Lee.

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby Black Background » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:04 pm

ps I have one other question. I was surprised that I couldn't find the programs that were included on the BBC "Welcome" cassette on the site...are these games not on the site, or did I look in the wrong place?

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vanekp
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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby vanekp » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:23 pm

no it's not on the Archive list but you can load games for the STH site using Jsbeeb and here is the welcome tapehttps://bbc.godbolt.org/?tape=sth%3Aleisure%2FAcornsoft%2FWelcome_B.zip# does not appear to be a disc version of it on STH.
Type:-
*T.
CH.""

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leenew
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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby leenew » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:58 pm

Eek! I think that is an oversight by me :oops:
I agree the welcome cassette games should be on there.
Normally I would do that right away, but we have a slight issue with adding new games at the moment, so I will just say "I will do it as soon as possible"... :D

Lee.

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pau1ie
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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby pau1ie » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:16 pm

Sorry, I broke adding games. That is fixed now.
Aqua Attack from the Master welcome disc is on the site, so that is the main thing :)

To the main question, I am happy to change the site. The main issue for you seems to be the play screen. I have darkened that in the hope that that helps you, though that does mean it doesn't fit in as well with the rest of the site. What does everyone think?

I don't think I am happy to let the user select from a list of styles though because it adds complexity for little benefit. How do you cope with say the BBC website, which also has a white background? When I asked in the past people were quite forceful in their approval of the sites rather minimalist styling.

Regarding Lees suggestion, again I am happy to apply the image to the website. But I have no artistic talent, so I am not able to create it. Also, would there be any copyright/trademark issues?
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby lurkio » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:45 pm

pau1ie wrote:The main issue for you seems to be the play screen. I have darkened that in the hope that that helps you, though that does mean it doesn't fit in as well with the rest of the site. What does everyone think? ... When I asked in the past people were quite forceful in their approval of the sites rather minimalist styling.

Yes, I was one of those people! And, given that there was, as you say, a consensus that was arrived at by a number of Stardot users -- that we should stick with a minimalist design, including the plain white background -- I'm slightly surprised to find that a change-request that kind of came out of the blue has been rapidly implemented!

But perhaps you're just trying the new background out, in order to canvas other people's opinions on it? In which case, I'd say that, to me, the darker background doesn't really seem to fit in with the plain-white "theme" of the backgrounds of all the other types of pages on the site. But I'm not dead against it -- I can see that for some people it would reduce "glare" when playing the games on the site in JSBeeb.

However, I still think that in the end I prefer the plain white background, if only because it's consistent with the rest of the site. But I'm happy to be overruled on this -- though preferably by a consensus opinion, rather than a lone voice! (Don't mean to be rude to Black Background -- I'm just saying let's see what other people think before we come to a final decision.)

:idea:
Last edited by lurkio on Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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vanekp
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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby vanekp » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:46 pm

I think it looks better with the darker background while playing, thanks.
Peter.

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby tricky » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:08 pm

Darker works for me too, but I doubt it would look as good on the rest of the site, or at least it would make the text harder to read.
I would be happy with black too, matching the beeb's screen border colour.

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pau1ie
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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby pau1ie » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:50 pm

lurkio wrote:But perhaps you're just trying the new background out, in order to canvas other people's opinions on it?


^^^ Yes, that. It is a small change which is easy to revert. No change to code or database, so very little risk compared with some "simple" changes that have been proposed. Personally don't really have an opinion, apart from as I already said it is different from the rest of the site.

I meant to mention that Black Backgrounds suggestion of making the
Black Background wrote:make the games "full screen"
isn't supported by jsbeeb, and I don't have the expertise to change it. Anyone can raise an enhancement request, but I would guess it is unlikely to be implemented any time soon as Matt seems to be having trouble finding the time to work on it.
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby Black Background » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:53 am

Hello again

Thanks for taking my suggestion so seriously, and actually altering the site! However, the darker background is worse unfortunately, you should revert to the white background. I feel like i've messed it up for everyone now :oops:

The reason I was inquiring about a black background is that it would make the rest of the screen "invisible" as it were...making it easier for my brain to kid itself I was in fact back playing on my old BBC Micro, and not using an online browser. It would give a sort of "complete immersion" feel.

How about you try the screen with a solid black background, and if people don't like it, go back to the original white?

Best of all would be to have a button saying "select background colour : white / grey / black". I know a lot of art websites have this option when viewing pictures online...if you click on one of these pics you'll see what I mean

https://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/bio/r ... graph.html

M

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby danielj » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:02 am

Looks fine to me with the darker background :? (I can't say the white upset me either!) :D

d.

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby barbarossa69 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:19 am

I can't really remember what it looked like before, but I think the darker background works fine for me!

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pau1ie
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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby pau1ie » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:48 pm

I understood the white background hurt your eyes, so assumed it was the contrast that was the problem. I think a few people liked the darker better. I didn't want to make the background black in case there are some games where you need to know where the edge of the screen is.

Anyway of those that gave an opinion, only Lurkio liked the white (Sorry), a few people liked the grey and a couple would be happy with black, so unless many people give an opinion to the contrary, I think I will leave it as it is.
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby Black Background » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:10 pm

Would be very interested to see it with a black background, if only for a day or two.

An option for "select background colour : white/grey/black" would be fab, but I understand that that might be a bit complicated!

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby Black Background » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:37 pm

Hello again, don't want to make myself unpopular by repeating this request :oops: , but couldn't help noticing this ZX Spectrum site runs the games with a black background....see what you think. To me it is a wonderful improvement, allows you to totally immerse in the game and forget you are using a web browser.

http://torinak.com/qaop/games


Would love to use your BBC site with similar background, maybe give it a try? [-o<

M

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby pau1ie » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:14 pm

Since more people are happy with it as is I am leaving it. However, just to please you, I have made a kludgy change!

Load the game as usual, then add the following to the end of the URL@

Code: Select all

&bg=black


It will then load again with a black background. It also works with

Code: Select all

&bg=white


Hope this helps.
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby Black Background » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:18 pm

that is brilliant! Thankyou so much, i'm in black background heaven!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby richardtoohey » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:05 pm

It might also be possible to fiddle with your browser settings (to override the site's CSS), but Paul's solution a bit neater!

EDIT: e.g. in Firefox:

Right-click on the body (in some blank space on the left-hand side, say)
Select Inspect Element from the pop-up menu
Should show <body> on the left-hand side, and on the right-hand side you should see Rules
In that Rules section, you should see something about body.
Click on that section to open a new element and type
background-color: black;

You should see your changes. Might be useful :?: if anyone wants to play with different colours to see if there's any fantastic set of colours.

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby pau1ie » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:47 am

You can use a similar approach to change the size of the canvas element that is used to render the screen. I did have a play with this to try and make it full screen, but I couldn't get it to resize automatically in a friendly way. I expect it can be done, just I am not clever enough to do it.
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby lurkio » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:00 pm

pau1ie wrote:... the canvas element that is used to render the screen ...

Would it be possible to superimpose black borders on the canvas element, just above and just below the "visible" vertical limits of the Beeb's screen, as a workaround to mask the graphical glitches caused by a scrolling bug in JSBeeb?

The bug has been reported here:


You can see the effects of the bug here:

:?:
Last edited by lurkio on Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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pau1ie
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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby pau1ie » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:37 pm

lurkio wrote:Would it be possible to superimpose black borders on the canvas element


I don't know. Wait, the one on Matt's website has a screen around the outside. Maybe if I pinched that code and altered the image to be black?

Hows that?

VDU23,128,1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128:VDU23,129,128,64,32,16,8,4,2,1:MODE2:REPEAT:COLOURRND(7):PRINTCHR$(127+RND(2));:UNTILFALSE
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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby lurkio » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:51 pm

pau1ie wrote:
lurkio wrote:Would it be possible to superimpose black borders on the canvas element

I don't know. Wait, the one on Matt's website has a screen around the outside. Maybe if I pinched that code and altered the image to be black?

Hows that?

VDU23,128,1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128:VDU23,129,128,64,32,16,8,4,2,1:MODE2:REPEAT:COLOURRND(7):PRINTCHR$(127+RND(2));:UNTILFALSE

That is amazingly great!

=D> =D>

Although, actually, I think it's just slightly off: the bottom row of pixels in MODE 0 is partly obscured:

:!:

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pau1ie
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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby pau1ie » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:08 pm

lurkio wrote:I think it's just slightly off:

Better now I hope.
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby lurkio » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:09 pm

pau1ie wrote:
lurkio wrote:I think it's just slightly off:

Better now I hope.

Yep! Great, thanks!

=D> =D>

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby lurkio » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:21 pm

pau1ie wrote:
lurkio wrote:I think it's just slightly off:

Better now I hope.

Ah. Actually, the right-hand side of the screen is now being cropped in MODE 7 at least!

:!:

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby pau1ie » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:29 pm

lurkio wrote:the right-hand side of the screen is now being cropped in MODE 7


Seems to be different in different modes. Anyway, since it doesn't seem to cause a problem I just made the hole in the image a load wider. Hopefully its better now.
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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Re: Question about Complete BBC Games site

Postby lurkio » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:33 pm

pau1ie wrote:
lurkio wrote:the right-hand side of the screen is now being cropped in MODE 7

Seems to be different in different modes. Anyway, since it doesn't seem to cause a problem I just made the hole in the image a load wider. Hopefully its better now.

Yes! Many thanks for all these tweaks!

=D> =D>