How do you save a screen

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pixelblip
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How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:00 pm

Hi there
Arrgh I can't let go of my Mode2 art program idea for the BBC. The BBC was my first love!
Can someone please tell me how I can save a screen to disk (say a mode 2 screen that has been generated) and then load it into sideways ram / be able to switch to it between a main screen and this screen........is that hard?

I have started googling it but nothing has come up yet............

Thanks

RobC
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby RobC » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:28 pm

To save a mode 2 screen to disc you just do:

*save SCREEN 3000+5000

And load it back with:

*load SCREEN

You can obviously change "SCREEN" to whatever you want to call the file.

A full mode 2 screen takes 20KB but a single sideways RAM bank only holds 16KB so saving a full screen to a single bank is not possible. However, you could copy 16KB worth to one bank and 4KB to another bank (or put the 4KB somewhere else in memory). (If you want to save the screen so that you can display a menu or palette, you may find that you don't need to save the whole screen.)

In any case, what you want is a routine to block copy memory from one location to another. This is just a loop from you start source address to your final source address which reads the memory at each location and then transfers it to the corresponding destination location. The reverse process would restore the data/picture.

However, you have to ensure that the sideways RAM is paged in at 0x8000 when you are writing to it so this rules out using BASIC for the copying routine. Are you happy to write assembler?

If not, I could write something that can be called from BASIC but it would be helpful to have more details of what you are trying to do (and which sideways RAM board you have).

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:55 pm

Thanks Rob that's really helpful! Ok here goes....the whole thing.

Well I am revisiting my idea of getting a simple MODE 2 paint package together. Nothing too fancy.

Just want to be able to load this picture below into sideways ram as a palette, then have an alternate main screen so I can load my own mode 2 pics..............and swap between the two screens by pressing the space bar.

I want to read the mouse co ordinates so I can pick a colour in the sideways ram screen, then go back to the main image and fill in colours like a paintpot.

So it's really a simple ( I say that :lol: ) fill program. I'd like to be able to press S to save (say every time you press S it increments the file name and saves ) and if you press U to undo it loads the previous screen saved into the main screen. I want to do that as sometimes fills can leak and you need to be able to undo.

I reckon I could maybe get there with the graphics stuff ( not sure about how to load files from a disk using a menu ).....but the main thing to get working is the swap thing first so I can just swap between my drawing and this palette so I can choose colours.

I am a real novice so any help and time is really appreciated. :)

Mike
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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:02 pm

The thing is I've started doing some drawings and rather than jumping ship to another platform which has more colours I'd rather stick with the Beeb as it is my first computer and I think I could do some great pics with it.

Here's some of my drawings I did very recently I''d like to colour in using this paint pot program.

Mike
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3.jpg
2.jpg
1.jpg

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:03 pm

PS Assembler ..........well to be honest that is above me at the moment..........it's BBC Basic or bust! :lol:

Also I am using Beeb Em.
I am thinking about getting another Beeb...........it depends how far I get with this really.........

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jgharston
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby jgharston » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:34 pm

RobC wrote:To save a mode 2 screen to disc you just do:
*save SCREEN 3000+5000

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

If you want to save I/O processor memory you ****MUST**** specify I/O processor memory. Save a 20K screen with *SAVE SCREEN FFFF3000+5000 Otherwise you're kicking the in nads anybody who isn't sat in front of your machine with whatever facilities happen to be on your machine. You don't go out of your way to make programs that do 'if <this environment> then do this else if <another environment> then do this else fall over', when the API calls themselves do this for you with the added bonus of omitting the final 'fall over'.

If you're using a Master you can copy data between memory and sideways RAM with the *SRREAD and *SRWRITE commands. For example:
*SRWRITE FFFF3000+1000 8000 4
*SRWRITE FFFF4000+4000 8000 5

will copy 20K to RAM banks 4 and 5, and
*SRREAD FFFF3000+1000 8000 4
*SRREAD FFFF4000+4000 8000 5

will copy it back out again. Somewhere I've got the equivalent code that runs on all machines.

pixelblip wrote:I want to read the mouse co ordinates

ADVAL(7) and ADVAL(8) return the mouse coordinates if you have a mouse driver such as this one

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

poink
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby poink » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:42 pm

pixelblip wrote:Can someone please tell me how I can save a screen to disk (say a mode 2 screen that has been generated)

RobC's given the direct answer, however, if you wanted more details, page 362 of the User Guide should be helpful. Note that OSCLI in BASIC allows you to send strings to the operativing system.

There is also OSFILE, which might be more appropriate in some programs (page 446). You can read filenames etc., with OSGBPB (new advanced user guide, page 254/pdf 131, recently posted by danielj).

NB., This won't work correctly if the screen has been hardware scrolled, unless you restore that too (see advanced user guide, again, page 203/pdf 105).

pixelblip wrote:and then load it into sideways ram / be able to switch to it between a main screen and this screen........is that hard?

On a Master, this is quite easy; just load one into the shadow screen memory, one into the main screen memory. Several methods via the OS (eg., *shadow)...or there's directly prodding ACCON at &FE34 (better to do it via the OS - or at least via the OSBYTE shelia access calls, though).

I believe the Master also has flood fill and dither patterns built in which makes it very convenient for what you're trying to do (I think you're been playing with with the GXR rom on this latter point?)

You might be able to use OS routines to copy a byte at a time into shadow RAM on the B+, but from memory the B+'s shadow screens are very limited.

If you go the copying way, you can direct access memory from BASIC with the indirection operators (page 378) - or use OS routines - but you'll probably want a small assembly block, as BASIC is going to be very, very slow at this.

You might also find it beneficial to rethink how you're doing things - after all, the need to bend the program around the machine and the machine around the program is what makes programming on this machines so interesting.

PS., I like the pictures; there's a natural fluency about them :)

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:01 am

Thank you poink........with all the page numbers there that is really helpful. I will have a read. I think the most I can do for now being at square one is work out how to read the mouse co ordinates with ADVAL ( whatever that is :lol: )

Oh and thank you to the previous posters - it's interesting hearing the programming banter about the right and wrongs of saving a picture to memory :lol:

Maybe you are right poink......I mean I don't have to do this on the BBC....I have found an Apple IIe art package which is ok ( a pain to convert images to I have to add).....but the Graphics Extension Rom Chip that Acorn made (which I've been mucking around with recently ) holds the key to really lovely dithered coloured images. I am convinced if I can get this working it will look great.

When you look around at the other computers and what's available with old skool paint packages ( I have done a lot of looking recently ) nothing let's you dither patterns and colours as well as the Graphics Extension Rom chip.

I could just fill my pics in using Gimp and 16 million colours but just like the Spectrum - the Beeb graphics have a certain look about it ( Mode 2 does ).....that I find very pleasing when you start to mix those 8 colours together with different hues and patterns.

RobC
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby RobC » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:01 am

jgharston wrote:If you want to save I/O processor memory you ****MUST**** specify I/O processor memory

Fair enough - although nine 'no's in capitals was unnecessary in my view...

Pixelblip: The pictures look great. If you're using an emulator, using a Master will make things much easier as others have said.

If you want to PM me, I'm happy to provide help offline.

poink
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby poink » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:24 am

pixelblip wrote:Maybe you are right poink......I mean I don't have to do this on the BBC....

I meant looking at other ways of implementing the palette :) Or...just do it on the Master (given you're using BeebEm, it's not like you need to scour eBay for it), which supports two banks of screen memory you can flip between by poking one memory address.

pixelblip wrote:When you look around at the other computers and what's available with old skool paint packages ( I have done a lot of looking recently ) nothing let's you dither patterns and colours as well as the Graphics Extension Rom chip.

The one that might is !Paint on the Arc, specifically the support for ECF (Extended Colour Fills); which look like they're demonstrated on the Master Welcome Disc (supplied with BeebEm, switch to Master 128, *ADFS, CHAIN"Castle", CHAIN "Cloud" or CHAIN "PFill")

Also, TimPaint (also on the Master Welcome Disc - CHAIN"PaintInfo" or CHAIN"TimPaint") does some of what you want; at the very least, might give you some ideas. (It's not full screen, and supports keyboard and joysticks, but I don't think the mouse).

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:47 am

Thanks everyone. Some useful ideas there. Like I posted in my other graphics stuff 'The Artist' on the BBC is a great package and does everything I need........it's really powerful. It only lets you use 8 patterns. If only the code could be modified to allow more! Do you think that is too difficult to accomplish for someone who knows what they are doing..........it would save having to re-invent the wheel.

I had a look at Tim Paint and yes it's along the lines there......I could try !Paint as well ( I had an Archie for a long while with Pro Artisan e.t.c ).....

If there's anyone out there who might be able to look at 'The Artist' code ...........(if that's possible).......and do what I want it would mean computing nirvana for one artist......it's such a decent program.
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jgharston
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby jgharston » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:57 pm

Found it (link). It seemed familiar as I wrote a paint program myself years ago (link) and was wanting to be able to toggle the control buttons off the screen. Never got around to it.

Code: Select all

   10 REM > ScrCopy
   20 REM Copy 20K screen in/out of SRAM
   30 :
   40 OSBYTE=&FFF4
   50 DIM mc% 130:src=&70:dst=&72:rom1=&74:rom2=&75
   60 FOR P=0 TO 1
   70   P%=mc%
   80   [OPT P*3
   90   \ A=0 store 1=fetch, X=bank 1, Y=bank 2
  100   .scrcopy
  110   BIT &FFFB:BMI exit
  120   STX rom1:STY rom2:CMP #1
  130   LDA #&30:BCC P%+4:LDA #&80
  140   STA src+1:EOR #&B0:STA dst+1
  150   LDA #1:JSR vram
  160   LDA &F4:PHA:LDX #&40:LDA rom1:CLC
  170   LDY #0:STY src:STY dst
  180   .lp1
  190   STA &F4:STA &FE30
  200   .lp2
  210   LDA (src),Y:STA (dst),Y:INY:BNE lp2
  220   INC src+1:INC dst+1:DEX:BNE lp2
  230   LDA src+1:BPL skip1:LDA #&80:STA src+1:.skip1
  240   LDA dst+1:BPL skip2:LDA #&80:STA dst+1:.skip2
  250   LDX #&10:ROL A:EOR #1:ROR A:LDA rom2:BCS lp1
  260   PLA:STA &F4:STA &FE30:LDA #0
  270   .vram
  280   PHA:LDA #&84:JSR OSBYTE:PLA:CPY #&80:BCC exit
  290   PHA:TAX:LDA #108:JSR OSBYTE
  300   PLA:INX:BNE exit
  310   EOR #1:TAX:LDA #111:JMP OSBYTE
  320   .exit
  330   RTS
  340   ]NEXT

A%=0:X%=4:Y%=5:CALL scrcopy will store the currently displayed screen in bank 4 and 5
A%=1:X%=4:Y%=5:CALL scrcopy will fetch the currently displayed screen from bank 4 and 5

Now I've got to go back to doing some wallpapering, so I can refit a radiator, so I can turn the heating back on... brr....

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:33 pm

Thank you.......that is super helpful......that is good of you to take the time out here with your radiator and DIY!

I have been mulling it over today..........I could get away somehow with no swap screen and just presses of keys to change colour......anyway just thinking out loud.....

PS I make do without heating..........although getting up for work is a bit of a challenge! :lol:

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:51 pm

Yes thinking out loud I could use your program without doing too much programming ( as I am really a novice ).
If I press say the 'R' key on the keyboard on a repeat loop it could swap the main screen out , add some red to the mix, plot a square to show the colour then load back the main canvase again so one can work on it.

That way one can mix your colours without too much fuss just using key presses like R, G, B, Y, e.t.c....and it mixing more colour into the hues as you do that. I guess I need some kind of array to store the various colour combinations of the Graphics Extension Rom ( using the VDU 23,2 command ).

Then I could read the mouse co-ordinates in that repeat loop and if I hit a mouse button it will flood fill in the current colour.

When I get more adventurous I can try to look at how to pick colours from a palette.......

At least it would mean I can colour my piccies in for now :D
The difficult bit is going to be that array of colours and how I add red into the mix e.t.c

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:47 pm

Well Hope you all had a good Christmas. Thank god it is over I say! :lol: Now it's New Year. Am I the only one who thinks New Years eve is so rubbish? I will do some more Beeb stuff I reckon so it's not all bad.

I have got further...........some thinking today....
I was thinking of arrays and reading about them trying to think how will I do this colour combinations but of course I was going about it the hard way.....

I came up with this - you press keys on the keyboard it selects different colours and plots a frame .......in the colour/pattern.
I wouldn't call it elegant but it does what I will need ( albeit my pics won't be in full screen ). So I can cycle through the various dithers and colours.
I've had a hard time trying to understand colour dithering in the GXR rom and the mind boggling Vdu 23,12 command!

The next bit now is to read the mouse co ordinates........which should be ok with the help I was given earlier....
I should be able to flood fill. The screen swap routine that was helpfully posted will be a life saver incase the flood fill leeks.

I also need to start using that BASIC editor someone suggested. Doing it in BBC Basic without an edit and copying lies ain't 'arf time consuming......but in due course I will learn one.

BBC Basic is the best language - unlike others I've tried - you can accomplish something at least!
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3.jpg
2.jpg
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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:42 pm

May I ask a question please....
What's the best command to input a key on a keyboard ( so it's constantly reading the keyboard)....is in Input$?
At the moment I am using GET$ which isn't suitable as the program is waiting before I move the mouse e.t.c

Thanks.

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sweh
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby sweh » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:47 pm

Are you wanting to check the keyboard to see if a key is pressed, and if so return the key? So a non-blocking form of GET? If so, look at INKEY()

eg INKEY(0) will return -1 if no key is pressed, or the ASCII value of the key pressed. It'll handle control keys as well (eg control-B will return 2).
Rgds
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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:23 am

Thank you Stephen. I will get cracking.
Mike

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:56 am

I am getting really far now :D
It's basic stuff but I can flood fill using the mouse, choose a colour. Amazing! Thank you everyone so far.

It's really crudely written of course!
I am trying to implement 'Save this screen before flood filling' then if it goes wrong you can press 'U' to load it back before the fill happens.

Later on I will try with sideways Ram and that code. I did try the code but it said bad mode for some reason in the listing....and the screen went funny.....
I was trying to use BBC B + so maybe I need to use Master in Beeb Em.
Hopefully I can get colouring today!

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:46 pm

I am almost approaching nirvana
Just having trouble understanding flood fills!
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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:23 pm

Getting a bit further
Attachments
try2.jpg

SteveF
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby SteveF » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:35 am

pixelblip wrote:Getting a bit further

That looks really good! Somehow it has a very non-BBC quality about it, perhaps because it looks "too colourful", if that makes any sense. Perhaps it's the pseudo-attribute-clash which is caused by what I am guessing are partially complete flood fills...

At the risk of being patronising, are you aware that the GXR (or a Master) will do a "proper" flood fill with PLOT &80+n or PLOT &88+n? e.g. "MODE 2:PLOT &8D,200,200" I just find myself wondering if you're trying to get the job done with PLOT &48+n, which AFAICR just flood fills a single line horizontally.

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:49 pm

Thank you Steve!
You are perceptive....and know your GXR Rom numbers!
I was using the line fill as an experiment as it gave me some control over fills incase they went wrong.......but it doesn't look very good at the moment.

I am failing to really understand - which plot command do you use to fill in a picture like the ones I have done? The lines are in black but its confusing as I am trying to fill into a white space ( I am not sure if it's foreground or background - I assume foreground).
I've been trying all kinds of fill commands to try and work it out (and read the GXR documentation but I don't really understand it). I think I tried plot &88....I've been trying various plot commands but when I try to fill in onto the white space nothing happens. It's trying to understand GCOL and PLOT commands.

I also found that using an emulator like Beebem and the mouse I can't quite fill properly as my mouse doesn't seem to line up................and the pointer keeps disappearing! My knowledge of mouse routines is basic to say the least. I just put a *POINTER ON in a loop and hoped that would do it but I don't always see a cursor! :lol:

I will post the code to see if someone can help out. I need to tidy it up as it looks awful.

On a side note Here's something I did on an Apple IIe emulator last night in an old paint package 'Dazzle Draw'. It has 16 colours (which the Apple IIe didn't really have properly - they had to cheat to get it !) - and is very low res.

If I can get my fill program working on the BBC then things are going to look even better ..........it's just harnessing this GXR chip......it's not easy!
Attachments
Stax II 800.jpg

SteveF
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby SteveF » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:23 pm

pixelblip wrote:Thank you Steve!
You are perceptive....and know your GXR Rom numbers!
I was using the line fill as an experiment as it gave me some control over fills incase they went wrong.......but it doesn't look very good at the moment.

I am failing to really understand - which plot command do you use to fill in a picture like the ones I have done? The lines are in black but its confusing as I am trying to fill into a white space ( I am not sure if it's foreground or background - I assume foreground).
I've been trying all kinds of fill commands to try and work it out (and read the GXR documentation but I don't really understand it). I think I tried plot &88....I've been trying various plot commands but when I try to fill in onto the white space nothing happens. It's trying to understand GCOL and PLOT commands.

I cheated and looked on BeebWiki :-)

I think you need to do something like this:

Code: Select all

MODE 2
REM Fill screen with white
COLOUR 135:CLS:COLOUR 7
REM Draw a black outline
GCOL 0,0
MOVE 100,100
DRAW 400,400
DRAW 800,200
DRAW 100,100
REM Fill it with red
GCOL 0,1
REM Set graphics background colour to white
GCOL 0,128+7
REM Flood (with foreground colour) to non-background
PLOT &85,250,200

You need to tell the flood fill where to stop, you can choose to flood to non-background with PLOT &80+n or to foreground with &88+n. The latter is no use here because we want to fill with red but the area we want to fill is not marked out with red lines. So we use the former. We want to fill with red so we set the foreground to red, and we want to stop when we find something which isn't white. I think the trick which you may or may not be aware of is the concept of the graphics background colour, set by adding 128 to the colour number in GCOL. Unlike the text background colour, this isn't normally very relevant, but it comes into play here (and with things like the CLG command).

I'm afraid I can't help with the pointer problem but I'm sure someone else can, then you can reproduce that nice Apple II image on the Beeb. :-)

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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby SteveF » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:45 pm

A random thought - if you're worried about flood fills going wrong, you could fill with one of colours 8-15 (which flash by default, but you could change this with VDU 19) first. If you don't like the result, flood fill from the same point with white to undo, or flood fill with the desired colour/pattern. Something like this:

Code: Select all

MODE 2
REM VDU 19,8,2,0,0,0:REM uncomment this line to show the test fill as green instead of flashing black/white
REM Fill screen with white
COLOUR 135:CLS:COLOUR 7
REM Draw a black outline
GCOL 0,0
MOVE 100,100
DRAW 400,400
DRAW 800,200
DRAW 100,100
VDU 7:IF GET:REM wait for a keypress
REM Test fill with colour 8 on top of colour 7 (white) background
GCOL 0,8:GCOL 0,128+7
PLOT &85,250,200
VDU 7
REM If Y pressed, we like the fill - redo it in final colour (red), otherwise redo it in white
IF GET$="Y" THEN GCOL 0,1 ELSE GCOL 0,7
GCOL 0,128+8:REM fill on top of colour 8
PLOT &85,250,200


If you've already got saving and restoring of the screen to sideways RAM working then that's way better than this anyway.

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:34 pm

That is great. Thank you. It gives me a lot to go on. I will get there in the end ....everyone has been really helpful. I can't really get on with the Apple IIe....it just doesn't feel right to an old Acorn head like me. :wink:

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:36 pm

Ok I am really on the home run now ! :D :D

I can fill in the areas with my colours. How good is that!

The only problem I have now is

1) How do I show the mouse pointer all the time?

2) The windows mouse pointer does not seem to be lining up with the AMX mouse pointer. I've tried all the offsets and resolutions in Beeb Em.

Can anyone help on this one please? I'm almost there now ( the next bit is to work out sideways ram screen saving ).

If I could see my AMX pointer then at least I can compensate for the non calibration of the mouse in Beeb Em ( sorry not finding fault with BeebEm here but not sure how to line these things up!)

Can't wait to start on some piccies soon!

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:38 pm

The setting 320x256 in beem em for the mouse seems pretty accurate enough.....with Adjust set to 0%.....but if I could see the AMX cursor at all times it would be more helpful! :)

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pixelblip
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby pixelblip » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:49 pm

Hmmm 320x256 ...well I don't seem to be able always to get to the top of the screen with the mouse..............it's this pesky calibration thing in emulators



Here's a real rough go ....see the difference.....
When I get all the little holes filled up it will look so good ! :D
It's very satisfying when a plan comes together like Hannibal says
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Mountain.jpg

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richardtoohey
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Re: How do you save a screen

Postby richardtoohey » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:55 am

It's a good effect. =D>

Reminds me a bit of Yoshi's Island (might just be me, though!)

yoshi.jpg


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