PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

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BigEd
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby BigEd » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:10 pm

I think, on the Zero at least, the LED is toggled for each Tube access, as a kind of activity light:
https://github.com/hoglet67/PiTubeDirec ... ula.c#L479

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guidol
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby guidol » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:11 pm

BigEd wrote:I think, on the Zero at least, the LED is toggled for each Tube access, as a kind of activity light:
https://github.com/hoglet67/PiTubeDirec ... ula.c#L479

On my Pi3 it doenst seems to be toogled.
On my Pi A+ only on a BREAK.

Shouldnt it flicker more? The Tube is more often accesed...so it should look like a HDD Led?

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby sundbyk » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:35 pm

guidol wrote:
BigEd wrote:I think, on the Zero at least, the LED is toggled for each Tube access, as a kind of activity light:
https://github.com/hoglet67/PiTubeDirec ... ula.c#L479

On my Pi3 it doenst seems to be toogled.
On my Pi A+ only on a BREAK.

Shouldnt it flicker more? The Tube is more often accesed...so it should look like a HDD Led?


Have not tested an A+. But on the Zero it flickers on access. But is could end up in either on or off after accessing.
Easy to test with the built in test programs.

Kjell S:
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby guidol » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:15 pm

Hi Kjell,

today the replacement for the Master-Converter did arrive :)
5 Minutes later I got it running... so Iam now also a happy "internal" PiTubeDirect-User :)
Attachments
PiTube_BBC_Master_4.JPG
PiTube_BBC_Master_1.JPG
PiTube_BBC_Master_3.JPG

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby sundbyk » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:57 pm

Hi Guido,

Good to hear that it was the transport that broke the old board and the new is working.

Happy new year to you,

Cheers,

Kjell S,
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby sundbyk » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:08 pm

Hi,

New batch of signal converter is available.
I made the external and the on "fitted under BBC" version a little bit smaller so it will now fit better under the BBC Master.
have also added some resistor networks for better signals. (Less noise)

Same price as before on this.
This price of the internal master version has increased some because of better shipping package.

Kjell S.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby guidol » Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:27 pm

sundbyk wrote:Hi,

New batch of signal converter is available.
...
have also added some resistor networks for better signals. (Less noise)

Are the new additional resistor networks are only on the external ones? Or will there be also a Master-Version?
Or do have the Master already the new resistors?

Whats the new PCB Rev No? :)

Fine to see new revisions :)

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby sundbyk » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:56 pm

Hi,

The Master already has the new one in rev 1.2.
The under the BBC and external ones are at rev 1.4.
I have flips the chips to the other side for more space on the "Under BBC" version
Image
Image

Needed to buy some new equipment the get the new chips soldered.
:D

Kjell S.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby mw0uzo » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:10 pm

Ordered! :D

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby sundbyk » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:57 am

mw0uzo wrote:Ordered! :D

Thanks,

Will ship it today.
:-)

Kjell S.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby sirmorris » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:53 am

sundbyk wrote:Needed to buy some new equipment the get the new chips soldered.
:D


LOL! I know that excuse ;)

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby mw0uzo » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:41 am

sundbyk wrote:
mw0uzo wrote:Ordered! :D

Thanks,

Will ship it today.
:-)

Kjell S.


I've got a Pi 1, I'm assuming I can desolder the composite video connector for it to fit. Any signal lines used on the extra pins?

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby sundbyk » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:55 pm

mw0uzo wrote:
sundbyk wrote:
mw0uzo wrote:Ordered! :D

Thanks,

Will ship it today.
:-)

Kjell S.


I've got a Pi 1, I'm assuming I can desolder the composite video connector for it to fit. Any signal lines used on the extra pins?


Yes, that will work, but I would highly recommend buying a Pi Zero for £4. Much better solution.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby mw0uzo » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:03 pm

sundbyk wrote:
mw0uzo wrote:
sundbyk wrote:Thanks,

Will ship it today.
:-)

Kjell S.


I've got a Pi 1, I'm assuming I can desolder the composite video connector for it to fit. Any signal lines used on the extra pins?


Yes, that will work, but I would highly recommend buying a Pi Zero for £4. Much better solution.


Yes a Pi 0 and 3 are on my shopping list, but I just feel I have to use the Pi 1 out of feeling sorry for it as I've had it for years and not done much with it at all :lol: I'll be interested in one or two more of your PCBs once I've had a play and got things working. :)

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby sundbyk » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:26 pm

:wink: :wink: :wink:
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby sundbyk » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:26 pm

sirmorris wrote:
sundbyk wrote:Needed to buy some new equipment the get the new chips soldered.
:D


LOL! I know that excuse ;)

So true. ;-)
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby BigEd » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:15 pm

I can confirm that desoldering the RCA adapter is enough to allow a pi 1 to take a 40 way connecter and act as a copro! But I note that the desoldering is a bit of a battle - three big lugs and a big ground plane, so lots of metal to heat up. Hoglet used his skills and his vacuum desoldering station to do mine, for which favour I am very grateful! (In fact he used the vacuum only for tidying up, the three lugs were desoldered by visiting each one in turn and pulling it out by a half millimeter, going round and round until they were free.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby mw0uzo » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:25 am

Got the boards, thanks sundbyk!
Yes I did start having a look at removing the connector, i had the iron pretty hot and it wasn't going to be enough. Didn't try max temperature.
I've got some rows of header pin sockets so what I think i'll do is trim and fit them to suit the Pi 1, and when a later Pi is used I can fit the additional sockets.
What would be really cool would be to connect the serial interfaces of the Pi and BBC together so I can develop and use terminal web browser on the Pi via the BBC. Are there any details/instructions available to do this? I was thinking of getting the signals in near the serial controller chip, maybe cut a track and fit a small link header to detach the serial buffer output from the serial processor IC.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby fordp » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:55 am

mw0uzo wrote:Got the boards, thanks sundbyk!
Yes I did start having a look at removing the connector, i had the iron pretty hot and it wasn't going to be enough. Didn't try max temperature.
I've got some rows of header pin sockets so what I think i'll do is trim and fit them to suit the Pi 1, and when a later Pi is used I can fit the additional sockets.
What would be really cool would be to connect the serial interfaces of the Pi and BBC together so I can develop and use terminal web browser on the Pi via the BBC. Are there any details/instructions available to do this? I was thinking of getting the signals in near the serial controller chip, maybe cut a track and fit a small link header to detach the serial buffer output from the serial processor IC.


I would recommend hooking it to a PC using a 3.3V FTDI Smart Lead and Tera Term.

(http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ftdi-future-technology-devices-international-ltd/TTL-232R-RPI/768-1204-ND/4382044)

Make sure you connect it with the BBC powered off, do not do what I did :(

It would be tricky to hook up to the BBC and as the BBC Cannot multi-task easily it would not be that useful either.
FordP (Simon Ellwood)
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby mw0uzo » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:41 pm

fordp wrote:Make sure you connect it with the BBC powered off, do not do what I did :(

It would be tricky to hook up to the BBC and as the BBC Cannot multi-task easily it would not be that useful either.


Oh no what happened? :(

I've found a tiny MAX3232 converter board that will fix onto the CoPro pcb. That can then be wired onto the pads for the missing input resistor networks near the serial socket.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131995765997? ... EBIDX%3AIT

Access to the Pi (and the wifi, web, storage etc) would be a *TERMINAL away. So I can develop for Pi side and BBC side at the same keyboard/monitor.
Also this for storage! http://www.retro-kit.co.uk/UPURS/
http://sweh.spuddy.org/Beeb/

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby bsdnazz » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:32 pm

bsdnazz wrote:I'm trying to book a Pi 3 with an SD card from sundby.com but I'm not sure it's working.

When powering on using the sundby.com SD card the red LED on the Pi comes on, the green flashes once and then the red LED stays on. Is this expected?

I have a different SD card that seems to Linux boot fine.


Sometime later and it's all working properly. I'm not sure what I did wrong earlier - probably something stupid - but we're up and running now.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby sundbyk » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:23 am

mw0uzo wrote:
fordp wrote:Make sure you connect it with the BBC powered off, do not do what I did :(

It would be tricky to hook up to the BBC and as the BBC Cannot multi-task easily it would not be that useful either.


Oh no what happened? :(

I've found a tiny MAX3232 converter board that will fix onto the CoPro pcb. That can then be wired onto the pads for the missing input resistor networks near the serial socket.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131995765997? ... EBIDX%3AIT

Access to the Pi (and the wifi, web, storage etc) would be a *TERMINAL away. So I can develop for Pi side and BBC side at the same keyboard/monitor.
Also this for storage! http://www.retro-kit.co.uk/UPURS/
http://sweh.spuddy.org/Beeb/


Good thinking.
This is the same chip that i uses for my WiFi card to BBC.

Kjell S.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby sundbyk » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:27 am

bsdnazz wrote:
bsdnazz wrote:I'm trying to book a Pi 3 with an SD card from sundby.com but I'm not sure it's working.

When powering on using the sundby.com SD card the red LED on the Pi comes on, the green flashes once and then the red LED stays on. Is this expected?

I have a different SD card that seems to Linux boot fine.


Sometime later and it's all working properly. I'm not sure what I did wrong earlier - probably something stupid - but we're up and running now.


Hi,

Good to hear that you got it working.
The flashing of the led is correct.
If it is the old kernel from me it should by default be set to disable the Coproc.
I thought that was a good idea, but maybe not.
:-)

Kjell S.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby BigEd » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:27 pm

mw0uzo wrote:Access to the Pi (and the wifi, web, storage etc) would be a *TERMINAL away. So I can develop for Pi side and BBC side at the same keyboard/monitor.


Just to be clear - you won't, I think, get anywhere trying to talk to the pi over serial when it's acting as a copro. You'd need to boot it into a full OS, and of course set the serial speed down to something the Beeb can handle. Then, to use the Pi as a copro, you'd need to swap cards and boot into PiTubeDirect. (Because PiTubeDirect is running on bare metal, it has no OS and has no drivers for any of the peripherals except serial-out. With some serious sleeves-rolled-up programming, you could change that...)

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby mw0uzo » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:19 pm

BigEd wrote:
mw0uzo wrote:Access to the Pi (and the wifi, web, storage etc) would be a *TERMINAL away. So I can develop for Pi side and BBC side at the same keyboard/monitor.


Just to be clear - you won't, I think, get anywhere trying to talk to the pi over serial when it's acting as a copro. You'd need to boot it into a full OS, and of course set the serial speed down to something the Beeb can handle. Then, to use the Pi as a copro, you'd need to swap cards and boot into PiTubeDirect. (Because PiTubeDirect is running on bare metal, it has no OS and has no drivers for any of the peripherals except serial-out. With some serious sleeves-rolled-up programming, you could change that...)


Yes, the plan is to run with lite OS install, so wifi drivers, SD card etc are available - not in the CoPro configuration.
My plan is to write a utility that presents functionality available over a list of serial commands, this includes storage, web requests, graphics and sound operations. And also presents a full-screen window for graphics on the Pi. Then bash together a ROM that interfaces to the user via * commands, additional system calls etc.
The idea being I can get something working, then swap out the serial layer with something more appropriate. I know it sounds silly, an accelerated adaptor over serial, its just a first step and familiarity exercise really. It might, maybe, have potential to tie into the CoPro project somehow, even if just the initial setup is being able to issue a command to swap over the kernels and reboot into CoPro mode. Or use a slower, bodged comms mode over the Tube. Not sure about that yet.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby BigEd » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:13 pm

Oh, right, that sounds like a good plan, or set of plans. Be aware of JGH's Tube-over-Serial protocol, that could be handy!
(See also viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6141)

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby mw0uzo » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:35 pm

BigEd wrote:Oh, right, that sounds like a good plan, or set of plans. Be aware of JGH's Tube-over-Serial protocol, that could be handy!
(See also viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6141)


Thanks for the extra info and for the heads up on the CoPro operating environment. Initially I was not aware that it had to be run on its own, until I started reading the docs. Is there a debug/development build that executes on linux? Does the kernel get in the way of servicing fast interrupts?

I'll leave the questions at that to avoid derailing the thread. :)

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby fordp » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:57 pm

The CoProcessors are largely free to run code at any speed most of the time but the Tube protocol which is normally interrupt driven and has to achieve very strict timing requirements however.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby BigEd » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:03 pm

I don't know any way to run the PiTubeDIrect in any other way - there is a serial output for debug messages but it's not a debug console. So it's pretty much an embedded emulator: the Pi becomes an appliance.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Postby mw0uzo » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:20 pm

Got the serial terminal working. It didn't work properly initially, I was scratching my head wondering why and wondering why the serial buffer chip was getting warm. GND and RX are the wrong way around on the silkscreen print - master version!


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