Z80 Winchester Utilities

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Boydie
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Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by Boydie »

Don't know if this is already widely available. It's an image of Acorn's Winchester Utilities Disc for the Z80 Second Processor.

It adds a virtual CP/M disc image to a hard disc, for use as Drive C, similar to DOS+ and the 512.

I'm sure I had it working on a real Z80 2P hooked up to my Master back in the days when it had a real winchester unit and ran ADFS unpatched, but on the Pi copro with Datacentre CF drive and MultiOS patched ADFS it can't find the drive. I'm hoping a BeebSCSI and unpatched ADFS will have more success...
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Last edited by Boydie on Sat May 18, 2019 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DutchAcorn
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by DutchAcorn »

Interesting, thanks for sharing! I only knew of the solution that was developed by JG Harston. See my attempts with that here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9852&p=116838

I never quite got that to work, even with a real Z80 copro. It works sort of, but it takes very long to start up and there are errors accessing files. I am probably doing something wrong there...

Anyway, this is a welcome alternative to try!
Paul
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DutchAcorn
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by DutchAcorn »

Ok, had a go at this. The BeebSCSI is found and a logical harddisk is created using HDMAN. But that's as far as I get. The DRIVES command shows only drives A and B and trying to access drive C: results in a bDos error.

Is there documentation available on how the partition can be used in CP/M?
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by Boydie »

Sadly not. I acquired all my Z80 stuff nearly 25 years ago now and haven't used it much for about 20.
So far as I can remember, I got all the Z80 software from Trintity College, Cambridge when they were selling it all off. The Winchester Utils presumably came as part of that lot. They only had Z80 second processors so it must have worked with them, rather than with an Acorn Business Machine.

Looking at the disk image, there appears to be an awful lot of documentation at the end of the disk, including a revision history of the Z80 Tube ROM, which would imply that winchester compatibility was present right the way back to version 1.21. A brief perusal of this would suggest the way to boot from HD may be:

Start the second processor to the * prompt rather than booting CP/M
Select ADFS and the HD
Hopefully, $.CPM is there
Boot using *CPM from the HD

Edit: Am I being overly optimistic, or does a lot of that documentation look like source code, potentially for "ZTUBE210", which presumably would be V2.10 of the Z80 Tube ROM (current Pi Z80 version is V1.21)?
Last edited by Boydie on Sun May 19, 2019 8:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Boydie
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by Boydie »

See also:

http://mdfs.net/Software/Tube/Z80/ABC/notes

This explains how the BBC series boots from MFM discs
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DutchAcorn
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by DutchAcorn »

Boydie wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 7:18 pm
..Looking at the disk image, there appears to be an awful lot of documentation at the end of the disk, including a revision history of the Z80 Tube ROM, which would imply that winchester compatibility was present right the way back to version 1.21. A brief perusal of this would suggest the way to boot from HD may be:

Start the second processor to the * prompt rather than booting CP/M
Select ADFS and the HD
Hopefully, $.CPM is there
Boot using *CPM from the HD
That helped! With *CPM.Z it starts

Code: Select all

Acorn CP/M 2.2 - HDBios 2.10
It boots into A:, which is a hard drive partition.

Next challenge would be: how to copy files from floppy disks (the disk drive does not seem accessible)?
Boydie wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 7:18 pm
Edit: Am I being overly optimistic, or does a lot of that documentation look like source code, potentially for "ZTUBE210", which presumably would be V2.10 of the Z80 Tube ROM (current Pi Z80 version is V1.21)?
Facinating.
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DutchAcorn
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by DutchAcorn »

Boydie wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 7:18 pm
...
Edit: Am I being overly optimistic, or does a lot of that documentation look like source code, potentially for "ZTUBE210", which presumably would be V2.10 of the Z80 Tube ROM (current Pi Z80 version is V1.21)?
It does look like Z80 source code (attached).
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hoglet
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by hoglet »

This looks very exciting!
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DutchAcorn
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by DutchAcorn »

The disk image is a 200K ssd. A CPM disk is image normally 400K, it seems only side 0 is now imaged. Since there was interesting stuff at the end of the image there may be more on side 1?

Any chance of imaging the original disk as a dsd 400K image?
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DutchAcorn
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by DutchAcorn »

I found out how to access the floppy drive from CP/M booted from the hard disk (*CPM.Z); the disk drive is mapped to G:

So using that I could copy files from the floppy drive to the hard disk image. :D

An advantage using this setup is that a floppy disk is no longer needed to start CP/M from the hard disk.
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by Boydie »

DutchAcorn wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:15 pm
The disk image is a 200K ssd. A CPM disk is image normally 400K, it seems only side 0 is now imaged. Since there was interesting stuff at the end of the image there may be more on side 1?

Any chance of imaging the original disk as a dsd 400K image?
Sadly, the other side is blank. I tried imaging it, just in case, but it’s empty.
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by egel »

DutchAcorn wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 8:35 pm
Next challenge would be: how to copy files from floppy disks
The BeebSCSI on the Raspberry Pi to 1MHz bus interface PiIMHz is much faster than the J.G.Harston IDE solution, but it looks that it still has problems with copying some (large?) files under CP/M. No strange characters or bars on the screen, but it looks like it just freezes.
I used PIP B:=G:*.*
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by vela025 »

DutchAcorn wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:11 pm
Ok, had a go at this. The BeebSCSI is found and a logical harddisk is created using HDMAN. But that's as far as I get.

Sorry to revive an old thread, but can you remember how you did this? I have a BeebSCSI, from HDMAN when choosing to format drive 0 it initially says formatting for a second before saying "formatting error", loading up the second time reports " bad free space map - disc should be reformatted" at the bottom of the menu screen and verify harddisk reports defect A1 at 002F00 on loop. My drive parameters are set up as the default (I've tried changing these to the ones given on the BeebSCSI github, but then formatting still fails as well as no longer being able to access the disc in ADFS.
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by dp11 »

On the sdcard what size is the .dat file?
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by vela025 »

dp11 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 8:09 pm
On the sdcard what size is the .dat file?
I'm using the images from https://www.domesday86.com/wp-content/u ... UN_2_5.zip so they are 511.9mb (524,140kb). When I use the hdman prpgram they end up empty 0kb, the same also happens when I use HDMAN with the same .dat files in BeebEm...although curiously this does get further (it instantly says formatting and moves to verifying before it hangs).
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by dp11 »

Over on the other thread I think i may have fixed the issue : viewtopic.php?p=359594#p359594
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DutchAcorn
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by DutchAcorn »

vela025 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 4:21 pm
DutchAcorn wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:11 pm
Ok, had a go at this. The BeebSCSI is found and a logical harddisk is created using HDMAN. But that's as far as I get.

Sorry to revive an old thread, but can you remember how you did this? I have a BeebSCSI, from HDMAN when choosing to format drive 0 it initially says formatting for a second before saying "formatting error", loading up the second time reports " bad free space map - disc should be reformatted" at the bottom of the menu screen and verify harddisk reports defect A1 at 002F00 on loop. My drive parameters are set up as the default (I've tried changing these to the ones given on the BeebSCSI github, but then formatting still fails as well as no longer being able to access the disc in ADFS.
The format option is only provided for if your ADFS drive is not yet formatted. Normally you should use option B in the Hard Disc Manager; “Initialise for CP/M”. It then creates virtual hard disc partitions.

For more information have a look at the “H-Help” option in the Hard Disc Manager’s main menu.
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by vela025 »

Woohoo! =D> Thanks Paul, I really should have read the help files included! That has worked a charm. Do you know if there is a way to increase the virtual drive from 8mb?
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by Iggypop »

https://mdfs.net/Software/CPM/Acorn/HardDrive/

So i dowloaded CPMHD.ssd from above link.

used this program from the read.me to create a place for cpm to live on my scisibeeb
10 out%=OPENOUT("$.CPMDISK")
20 FOR A%=1 TO &8100:BPUT#out%,&E5:NEXT A%
30 PTR#out%=&800000
40 CLOSE#out%

REM-ed line 30 because my computer choked on it, and i dit not understand why you would want to change the file pointer before closing the file.

created a new system floppy with sysgen
copied the files from the cpmhd disk to the new disk

changed to the new disk

typed:
PUTBIOS HDBIOS.SYS
PUTCCP SJCCP.SYS
MOUNT adfs:$.CPMDISK

Put the new disk in drive A (selected the new disk-image in the go-tek)
BREAK-D
*CPM

and it seemed to work. greeting me with.

Acorn CP/M 2.2 - HDBIOS 1.24
SJCCP version 1.40

C0>_

But is there a way to boot from C: ?
and what use do i have from SJCCP.SYS
and how does this winchester utilities disk fit in ?
I tried HDMAN, the second option and all it did was to create a directory structure on the beebscsi

I'm completely new to CP/M

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DutchAcorn
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by DutchAcorn »

vela025 wrote:
Sat May 28, 2022 11:55 am
Woohoo! =D> Thanks Paul, I really should have read the help files included! That has worked a charm. Do you know if there is a way to increase the virtual drive from 8mb?
Not sure. Of course, CPM does not support a directory tree. I believe 8 MB is quite a lot of space for a CP/M drive.
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DutchAcorn
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Re: Z80 Winchester Utilities

Post by DutchAcorn »

Iggypop wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 3:55 pm
https://mdfs.net/Software/CPM/Acorn/HardDrive/

So i dowloaded CPMHD.ssd from above link.

...
There are 2 options for CP/M hard disc support
1) the mdfs.net option developed by JGH
2) the Acorn Winchester Utilities option recovered by Boydie, image for the utilities disc in the first post of this thread.

Option 1) won't boot from C:, you'll need to boot from the CP/M system HD disc.

Option 1) is a bit more logical imo in that the hard disc partition is mapped to the C: drive. In option 2) the partitions are mapped to drives A: to D:. The floppy disc is mapped to drive G:. Having it mapped to the A: and B: drives may help for compatibility reasons, the Acorn CP/M software assumes running from floppy disc A: / B:

My advice would be to go for the Acorn Winchester Utilities. It is easier to set up and also supports booting from the hard disc partition.
Paul
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