New BBC demo written in TRSE

new graphics/music demos - bitshifters, 0xc0de, The Master + others
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oss003
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New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by oss003 »

Hi guys,

I noticed that Turbo Rascal Syntax Error (TRSE) is mentioned a few times on the forum so I decided to have a look at the site: https://lemonspawn.com/turbo-rascal-syn ... -but-begin
It's an open source program and you can find the source here: https://github.com/leuat/TRSE

trse.png
trse.png (6.09 KiB) Viewed 772 times

Looks like TRSE is a general compiler for a processor, eg 6502, Z80 or 68000.
You can add libraries with machine specific code for screen handling, sound or memory management.
About 30 machines are supported at the moment.
It's a kind of Pascal like programming language and you can link an emulator to test the program.

The writer, Nicolaas Groeneboom, is a BBC fan and wrote a demo in TRSE.
You can can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnAoYDj ... Groeneboom
I contacted him and he added the Acorn Atom to the list.

Greetings
Kees
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by cmorley »

I am trying to run this on my B but no music, the splash screen doesn't work properly and crashes later on. I stripped the B down to BASIC & DFS1.2 - the demo runs in BeebEm like this. Anyone else having problems on an original B or just me?
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by oss003 »

cmorley wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:55 am
I am trying to run this on my B but no music, the splash screen doesn't work properly and crashes later on. I stripped the B down to BASIC & DFS1.2 - the demo runs in BeebEm like this. Anyone else having problems on an original B or just me?
I sent Nicolaas your message and he replied that you could contact Kieran because he recorded the demo.
Last edited by oss003 on Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by cmorley »

I watched Kieran's video capture on youtube... looks like he used a Master not a B from the startup banner.
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by kieranhj »

I’m happy for folks to contact me here or on Twitter for BBC demo tech support! I did test the demo on both a Model B and my Master with a Gotek on vanilla DFS and it ran fine without any problems. The Model B does have 32K SWRAM but my understanding is that the demo doesn't use this. I have to use my Master for video capture as it has the audio out fed into a SCART cable.
Last edited by kieranhj on Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by 0xC0DE »

Seen the demo but had no idea it was written in TRSE, impressive!
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by cmorley »

I removed the Speech upgrade and swapped my VIAs over (in case the machine has a fault I am not aware of) but I get the same behaviour.

I can create an execution trace if the demo author would like to investigate?
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by kieranhj »

Curious. My limited understanding is that TRSE doesn't do any particularly fancy technical effects, e.g. there's no gratuitous CRTC abuse if it runs in BeebEm, it's mostly shifting RAM around in a clever way that results in really nice graphics. (This is in no way to undermine the achievement, I really like the demo and it has great music, effects and pacing.) I also got the impression from the author that they have been relatively conservative about not touching OS RAM, as they're not (yet) a Beeb expert.
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by tricky »

Could the incompatibility be SD card DFS related?
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by cmorley »

tricky wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:45 pm
Could the incompatibility be SD card DFS related?
I tried with DFS1.2 and a Gotek. It runs on BeebEm with DFS1.2... I don't think my machine is faulty. I swapped the 6522s just in case one had developed an interrupts fault.

Has anyone else had a problem running it or is it just me :?
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by maniacminer »

On the Integra-B I had to select a graphics mode, then run */CODE and it fills the screen with the program and then the music starts and the mode switches. If I just boot the disc, I get a plain blue screen most of the time and if it does run it gets stuck when it is supposed to show the BEEP letters flipping. On a standard Beeb with 1770 DFS I had to use CTRL+Z+BREAK and then */CODE and then it would run, otherwise it would freeze at the end of the scrolling titles. On the few Masters I tried, it worked without any modification. All the machines used a GOTEK via the floppy interface.
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by drjaymz »

What do you have to do to run it assuming bbc b and turbo mmc?
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by leuat »

Hi there, and thanks for all the nice comments about this production!

First, thanks to kieranhj for the excellent screen capture.

Here follows some comments on how it mas made:

While TRSE enabled me to create this demo, I also *made* TRSE, so uhm how much combined hard work went into the entire production is difficult to say.

While I *do* own a BBC - the very same my dad bought in 1985 and I learned how to code for (one of the reasons why I wanted to create this demo) - the computer hasn't been able to turn on for about 20 years. I therefore had no idea whether it would work on real HW.

I'm also quite impatient and not very good at reading documentation, which is why I usually learn about new (read:old) computer systems by simply brute-forcing through stuff : where is the screen memory located, what is the system memory layout, graphics layout, register addresses etc. Since I have compiler/codegen support for most of these old CPUs (6502, Z80, X86, GBZ80, M68K etc) in TRSE already, I usually proceed by implementing system-specific libraries in TRSE while experimenting with creating new tutorials / example files / demo effects.

Sometimes, these tutorials will grow into a demo. Happened on the CPC (see "Mørketid"), VIC-20 ("Purple Planet Yo"), Gameboy ("Yo-grl"), C64 ("1981","Aroused") etc. I'm also working on demos for the Atari ST, Amiga, DOS(386), VZ200, SNES etc. In the case of the BBC, I simply extended the built-in ray tracer in TRSE to output BBC-style 4-color graphics (compressed "BEEP" logo, fade-outs), managed to set up a disk loader system and voilà - a demo was born. Don't think I spent more than 3 weeks creating this, as most of the effects are stuff I already had implemented in other systems in TRSE (3d engine is generic on all 6502 platforms in TRSE, just need a line renderer).. 3d-stuff is pre-rendered graphics, most of Optic's graphics are C64/A500-conversions done with TRSE.

Needless to say, I'm no expert on the BBC - hardware tricks and hacking mastery is not something I usually spend much time on - and since I didn't have any working BBC to test on, I actually had no idea whether the demo would work on real HW or not. I used the "b2" emulator for testing, but again - didn't even know if the disk loading routine would work on proper hardware / the timing with the music would be screwed.

I hope that I'll find time to return to the BBC again to create something more .. eloquent in the future, but you never know. I tend to jump from one system to the next, learning what I can (and hopefully releasing a demo) before moving on to the next one. Until now, the only computer that I've seemed to return to (in terms of releasing demos) is the C64 - but there are *so many other* interesting old computers out there as well!

If anybody is interested, the entire source code + resources of the demo is now included with TRSE as a sample project. You compile the entire project with the click of a button, then run the disk with ctrl+R!

For those who are interested in watching more of my stuff, check out my yt channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEoez- ... 4WdJtwLC_A

Learn how to code for TRSE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWCy9zo ... uK8uvjcJia

Playlist of some demos that I've made : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnAoYDj ... PyZx1HMaCu

Nicolaas (Leuat/Proxima)
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Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Post by BigEd »

Great to see you here and get the inside story!
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