Page 1 of 1

New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:06 am
by oss003
Hi guys,

I noticed that Turbo Rascal Syntax Error (TRSE) is mentioned a few times on the forum so I decided to have a look at the site: https://lemonspawn.com/turbo-rascal-syn ... -but-begin
It's an open source program and you can find the source here: https://github.com/leuat/TRSE

trse.png
trse.png (6.09 KiB) Viewed 1112 times

Looks like TRSE is a general compiler for a processor, eg 6502, Z80 or 68000.
You can add libraries with machine specific code for screen handling, sound or memory management.
About 30 machines are supported at the moment.
It's a kind of Pascal like programming language and you can link an emulator to test the program.

The writer, Nicolaas Groeneboom, is a BBC fan and wrote a demo in TRSE.
You can can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnAoYDj ... Groeneboom
I contacted him and he added the Acorn Atom to the list.

Greetings
Kees

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:55 am
by cmorley
I am trying to run this on my B but no music, the splash screen doesn't work properly and crashes later on. I stripped the B down to BASIC & DFS1.2 - the demo runs in BeebEm like this. Anyone else having problems on an original B or just me?

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:19 am
by oss003
cmorley wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:55 am
I am trying to run this on my B but no music, the splash screen doesn't work properly and crashes later on. I stripped the B down to BASIC & DFS1.2 - the demo runs in BeebEm like this. Anyone else having problems on an original B or just me?
I sent Nicolaas your message and he replied that you could contact Kieran because he recorded the demo.

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:35 am
by cmorley
I watched Kieran's video capture on youtube... looks like he used a Master not a B from the startup banner.

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:30 am
by kieranhj
I’m happy for folks to contact me here or on Twitter for BBC demo tech support! I did test the demo on both a Model B and my Master with a Gotek on vanilla DFS and it ran fine without any problems. The Model B does have 32K SWRAM but my understanding is that the demo doesn't use this. I have to use my Master for video capture as it has the audio out fed into a SCART cable.

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:32 am
by 0xC0DE
Seen the demo but had no idea it was written in TRSE, impressive!

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:43 am
by cmorley
I removed the Speech upgrade and swapped my VIAs over (in case the machine has a fault I am not aware of) but I get the same behaviour.

I can create an execution trace if the demo author would like to investigate?

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:51 am
by kieranhj
Curious. My limited understanding is that TRSE doesn't do any particularly fancy technical effects, e.g. there's no gratuitous CRTC abuse if it runs in BeebEm, it's mostly shifting RAM around in a clever way that results in really nice graphics. (This is in no way to undermine the achievement, I really like the demo and it has great music, effects and pacing.) I also got the impression from the author that they have been relatively conservative about not touching OS RAM, as they're not (yet) a Beeb expert.

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:45 pm
by tricky
Could the incompatibility be SD card DFS related?

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:07 pm
by cmorley
tricky wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:45 pm
Could the incompatibility be SD card DFS related?
I tried with DFS1.2 and a Gotek. It runs on BeebEm with DFS1.2... I don't think my machine is faulty. I swapped the 6522s just in case one had developed an interrupts fault.

Has anyone else had a problem running it or is it just me :?

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:37 am
by maniacminer
On the Integra-B I had to select a graphics mode, then run */CODE and it fills the screen with the program and then the music starts and the mode switches. If I just boot the disc, I get a plain blue screen most of the time and if it does run it gets stuck when it is supposed to show the BEEP letters flipping. On a standard Beeb with 1770 DFS I had to use CTRL+Z+BREAK and then */CODE and then it would run, otherwise it would freeze at the end of the scrolling titles. On the few Masters I tried, it worked without any modification. All the machines used a GOTEK via the floppy interface.

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:10 pm
by drjaymz
What do you have to do to run it assuming bbc b and turbo mmc?

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 10:21 am
by leuat
Hi there, and thanks for all the nice comments about this production!

First, thanks to kieranhj for the excellent screen capture.

Here follows some comments on how it mas made:

While TRSE enabled me to create this demo, I also *made* TRSE, so uhm how much combined hard work went into the entire production is difficult to say.

While I *do* own a BBC - the very same my dad bought in 1985 and I learned how to code for (one of the reasons why I wanted to create this demo) - the computer hasn't been able to turn on for about 20 years. I therefore had no idea whether it would work on real HW.

I'm also quite impatient and not very good at reading documentation, which is why I usually learn about new (read:old) computer systems by simply brute-forcing through stuff : where is the screen memory located, what is the system memory layout, graphics layout, register addresses etc. Since I have compiler/codegen support for most of these old CPUs (6502, Z80, X86, GBZ80, M68K etc) in TRSE already, I usually proceed by implementing system-specific libraries in TRSE while experimenting with creating new tutorials / example files / demo effects.

Sometimes, these tutorials will grow into a demo. Happened on the CPC (see "Mørketid"), VIC-20 ("Purple Planet Yo"), Gameboy ("Yo-grl"), C64 ("1981","Aroused") etc. I'm also working on demos for the Atari ST, Amiga, DOS(386), VZ200, SNES etc. In the case of the BBC, I simply extended the built-in ray tracer in TRSE to output BBC-style 4-color graphics (compressed "BEEP" logo, fade-outs), managed to set up a disk loader system and voilà - a demo was born. Don't think I spent more than 3 weeks creating this, as most of the effects are stuff I already had implemented in other systems in TRSE (3d engine is generic on all 6502 platforms in TRSE, just need a line renderer).. 3d-stuff is pre-rendered graphics, most of Optic's graphics are C64/A500-conversions done with TRSE.

Needless to say, I'm no expert on the BBC - hardware tricks and hacking mastery is not something I usually spend much time on - and since I didn't have any working BBC to test on, I actually had no idea whether the demo would work on real HW or not. I used the "b2" emulator for testing, but again - didn't even know if the disk loading routine would work on proper hardware / the timing with the music would be screwed.

I hope that I'll find time to return to the BBC again to create something more .. eloquent in the future, but you never know. I tend to jump from one system to the next, learning what I can (and hopefully releasing a demo) before moving on to the next one. Until now, the only computer that I've seemed to return to (in terms of releasing demos) is the C64 - but there are *so many other* interesting old computers out there as well!

If anybody is interested, the entire source code + resources of the demo is now included with TRSE as a sample project. You compile the entire project with the click of a button, then run the disk with ctrl+R!

For those who are interested in watching more of my stuff, check out my yt channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEoez- ... 4WdJtwLC_A

Learn how to code for TRSE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWCy9zo ... uK8uvjcJia

Playlist of some demos that I've made : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnAoYDj ... PyZx1HMaCu

Nicolaas (Leuat/Proxima)

Re: New BBC demo written in TRSE

Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:46 am
by BigEd
Great to see you here and get the inside story!